Discussion:
OT:Government digital TV coupons to buy converter hardware
(too old to reply)
Jack May
2008-01-05 05:15:38 UTC
Permalink
The Federal Government is sending $40 coupons to people to buy a $60 digital
TV converter box when all analog TV stations are shut down in February 2009
(day after the superbowl).

The coupons are going fast and quantity is limited. If you don't have the
capability to receive digital TV stations, you might want to sign up to get
your coupons as soon as possible at:

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

or

1-888-DTV-2009

You are eligible to receive up to two $40 coupons if one or more of your
analog TV's is getting its reception with an antenna instead of a cable or
satellite connection. When the analog stations are shut down in Feb 2009,
there will be no TV stations anywhere in the US that your present analog TV
can receive to display any TV stations unless you have digital TV conversion
capabilities.

Your cable or satellite connection will do the conversion of the digital TV
signal for your analog TV.

The digital TV to analog TV conversion boxes are $60 minimum and more for
boxes with additional features. You can only use the coupons to reduce the
cost of the converter boxes. They can not be exchanged for money.

The boxes will not allow you to receive HDTV which can not be displayed on
analog TVs.
Bolwerk
2008-01-05 06:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
Brent Jonas
2008-01-05 07:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
As outrageous as some of his postings are, this isn't a scam by any
means; this was actually on the news yesterday in the SF Bay Area.


-Brent
Jack May
2008-01-05 19:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
As outrageous as some of his postings are, this isn't a scam by any
means; this was actually on the news yesterday in the SF Bay Area.

The reason I posted it is because I was surprised by a friend that he had
never heard of the shutting off of the analog stations in 2009. I thought
there might be a lot more people than I had imagined that are unaware of
this major change in society.

It is not surprising to me that Bolwerk and others will use any reason to
continue their spewing of hatred against anyone that does not believe
exactly same as they do.
Justin Case
2008-01-05 20:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Since the topic was marked as "OT", I didn't have THAT much of a
problem posting here. I thought the cross-posting was a bit much.

--
Jack May
2008-01-06 00:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justin Case
Since the topic was marked as "OT", I didn't have THAT much of a
problem posting here. I thought the cross-posting was a bit much.
I tend to prefer cross posting because it is more like a conversation where
you get multiple views from groups of people with different view points.

For transportation subjects, for example, you tend to get transit advocates
in discussions with road advocate people.
David Nebenzahl
2008-01-06 01:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by Justin Case
Since the topic was marked as "OT", I didn't have THAT much of a
problem posting here. I thought the cross-posting was a bit much.
I tend to prefer cross posting because it is more like a conversation where
you get multiple views from groups of people with different view points.
For transportation subjects, for example, you tend to get transit advocates
in discussions with road advocate people.
Come off it, Jack. That's not "more like a conversation"; it's called
"stirring the pot". But you're far too clueless to get that.
Jack May
2008-01-06 02:53:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Nebenzahl
Post by Jack May
Post by Justin Case
Since the topic was marked as "OT", I didn't have THAT much of a
problem posting here. I thought the cross-posting was a bit much.
I tend to prefer cross posting because it is more like a conversation
where you get multiple views from groups of people with different view
points.
For transportation subjects, for example, you tend to get transit
advocates in discussions with road advocate people.
Come off it, Jack. That's not "more like a conversation"; it's called
"stirring the pot". But you're far too clueless to get that.
It is about getting different points of view, not just the same old view
rehashed. That is important.

I expect to be surprised when I am in a conversation with a different point
of view. That is what I get in face to face conversations with people I
don't talk to very often.
e***@no.spam
2008-01-08 18:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
It is about getting different points of view, not just the same old view
rehashed. That is important.
No, it's about knowling posting off-topic to many newsgroups at once. This
isn't the place to spread the news, Jack.
Reply to Dizzoid
2008-01-12 10:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by Jack May
It is about getting different points of view, not just the same old view
rehashed. That is important.
No, it's about knowling
Knowling? Dry up toid.
Post by e***@no.spam
posting off-topic to many newsgroups at once. This
isn't the place to spread the news, Jack.
e***@no.spam
2008-01-14 03:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Reply to Dizzoid
Knowling? Dry up toid.
Ah, a typing lame. How quaint.
Reply to Dizzoid
2008-01-12 10:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brent Jonas
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
As outrageous as some of his postings are, this isn't a scam by any
means; this was actually on the news yesterday in the SF Bay Area.
The reason I posted it is because I was surprised by a friend that he had
never heard of the shutting off of the analog stations in 2009.
Im learning of it right now! I knew someday but NOT next year. Good grief. What
will they think of next. Concentration Camps and slave labor?
Post by Brent Jonas
I thought
there might be a lot more people than I had imagined that are unaware of
this major change in society.
It is not surprising to me that Bolwerk and others will use any reason to
continue their spewing of hatred against anyone that does not believe
exactly same as they do.
George Conklin
2008-01-05 13:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Martin Edwards
2008-01-05 14:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From “Rollerball”
Bolwerk
2008-01-05 15:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
No doubt, but this might also be an example of "takes one to know one."
What I said maybe was a tad nasty, although, unlike Conklin and May,
when I say something nasty it's at least also truthful.
Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
2008-01-05 18:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bolwerk
No doubt, but this might also be an example of "takes one to know one."
What I said maybe was a tad nasty, although, unlike Conklin and May,
when I say something nasty it's at least also truthful.
Nah. It just takes filters that work.

Buhbyuueeeee
--
Requiescas in pace o email

Ex turpi causa non oritur actio

http://members.cox.net/larrysheldon/
George Conklin
2008-01-05 20:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bolwerk
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
No doubt, but this might also be an example of "takes one to know one."
What I said maybe was a tad nasty, although, unlike Conklin and May,
when I say something nasty it's at least also truthful.
You had to delete the original post so you could claim to be truthful about
a blank page, which for you is obviously an advantage over dealing with any
issue.
Bolwerk
2008-01-05 21:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
No doubt, but this might also be an example of "takes one to know one."
What I said maybe was a tad nasty, although, unlike Conklin and May,
when I say something nasty it's at least also truthful.
You had to delete the original post so you could claim to be truthful about
a blank page, which for you is obviously an advantage over dealing with any
issue.
What the hell are you talking about? It's usenet; how could I "delete
the original post"?

I kept the relevant post (yours) fully intact in my reply. I wasn't
addressing anything in Jack May's junk post; I only addressed that he
posted junk. If somebody really cares enough, they could easily climb
upthread.

And do you seriously miss the irony of *GEORGE CONKLIN* complaining
about disingenuous snipping?
George Conklin
2008-01-05 20:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
You too have nothing to say. Note that the original post had to be
deleted so you could post your comments about nothing.
Franz T
2008-01-05 22:17:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 15:53:01 -0500, "George the Village Idiot"
Post by George Conklin
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
You too have nothing to say. Note that the original post had to be
deleted so you could post your comments about nothing.
Why, George!! Having nothing to say has never stopped YOU from posting
your absurd nonsense....
Martin Edwards
2008-01-06 16:25:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
You too have nothing to say. Note that the original post had to be
deleted so you could post your comments about nothing.
You'll never understand Zen
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From “Rollerball”
George Conklin
2008-01-06 22:53:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
You too have nothing to say. Note that the original post had to be
deleted so you could post your comments about nothing.
You'll never understand Zen
Oh yes. Infinite comments about what is deleted.
Martin Edwards
2008-01-07 09:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by George Conklin
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
And you continue your tradition of empty, nasty posts.
Pots and kettles come to mind
You too have nothing to say. Note that the original post had to be
deleted so you could post your comments about nothing.
You'll never understand Zen
Oh yes. Infinite comments about what is deleted.
I am unable to make anything of the above. Can anyone help out?
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From “Rollerball”
Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
2008-01-07 19:17:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Edwards
Can anyone help out?
Yes.

Look for doors with lighted red or green "EXIT" signs above them.
--
Requiescas in pace o email

Ex turpi causa non oritur actio

http://members.cox.net/larrysheldon/
e***@no.spam
2008-01-08 01:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
You too have nothing to say. Note that the original post had to be
deleted so you could post your comments about nothing.
The orginal post was deleted? You are quite the dumbass, George.
Bill Z.
2008-01-08 01:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by George Conklin
You too have nothing to say. Note that the original post had to be
deleted so you could post your comments about nothing.
The orginal post was deleted? You are quite the dumbass, George.
Even funnier, not only are the originals still on servers, but the
post Conklin replied didn't even snip any of the quoted text. The only
question is whether George was lying or was merely confused.
--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
George Conklin
2008-01-09 02:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by George Conklin
You too have nothing to say. Note that the original post had to be
deleted so you could post your comments about nothing.
The orginal post was deleted? You are quite the dumbass, George.
It was, and still is. You need to post to a blank white page in order to
continue your irrationality.
e***@no.spam
2008-01-09 18:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by e***@no.spam
The orginal post was deleted? You are quite the dumbass, George.
It was, and still is.
Bullshit. It's right there at the start of the thread were it
always was.
Jym Dyer
2008-01-06 08:21:51 UTC
Permalink
=v= Jack May worships car-driving.

=v= Unsurprising that a most important thing in his life
would also involve staring at life through a pane of glass.
<_Jym_>
John David Galt
2008-01-08 06:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
Supporting the continued use of man's greatest enabling technology does not
constitute trolling.
David Nebenzahl
2008-01-08 07:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by John David Galt
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
Supporting the continued use of man's greatest enabling technology does not
constitute trolling.
Speaking of enablers ...
kkt
2008-01-08 21:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by John David Galt
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
Supporting the continued use of man's greatest enabling technology does not
constitute trolling.
Jack is setting fire to things now?

-- Patrick
Miles Bader
2008-01-09 00:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by kkt
Post by John David Galt
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
Supporting the continued use of man's greatest enabling technology does not
constitute trolling.
Jack is setting fire to things now?
You know those "Reason Foundation" types -- when they throw a tantrum,
they don't skimp on the rum (their corporate sponsors are picking up the
tab, after all)...

-miles
--
`There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.'
Jack May
2008-01-09 03:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Miles Bader
Post by kkt
Post by John David Galt
Post by Bolwerk
Jack May has sunk from trolling to spamming.
Supporting the continued use of man's greatest enabling technology does not
constitute trolling.
Jack is setting fire to things now?
You know those "Reason Foundation" types -- when they throw a tantrum,
they don't skimp on the rum (their corporate sponsors are picking up the
tab, after all)...
I have thrown no tantrums. Is this a lie that you are trying to spread?

All the anger is coming from the usual rail advocates who do not like change
in society.

Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I suspect if I
say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that they are only
getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in 2009.

Then there might be weeks or months after the cut off before the backlog of
fixing those old TVs to work again with a shortage of electronics and people
to make everything work again.

We can expect that there will be a lot of people trying to make a lot of
money from people that desperately want their TVs working again.

They may be buying up many converters using the coupons. We already have
companies that will have a converter box price equal to the coupon value.
It cost nothing for people to horde a large number of coupons and converter
boxes.

Maybe I should have just let the present angry people suffer in whatever is
going to happen. It apparently does no good to extend any effort to
possibly help rail advocates. They are just too angry at everything.
James Robinson
2008-01-09 05:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at midnight on the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds won't be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.

Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low power
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion of the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people need
to buy:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
Jack May
2008-01-09 19:05:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at midnight on the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds won't be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low power
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion of the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people need
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
I have seen nothing on low power TV stations being exempt on AVS.com. AVS
is the leading audio video site on the Internet. I searched the site and
didn't find anything either. I will ask on the site to see if this is true
or just a rumor
George Conklin
2008-01-09 22:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at midnight on the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds won't be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low power
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion of the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people need
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
I have seen nothing on low power TV stations being exempt on AVS.com.
AVS
Post by Jack May
is the leading audio video site on the Internet. I searched the site and
didn't find anything either. I will ask on the site to see if this is true
or just a rumor
I had lunch with a UNC-TV executive last year, and he told me that not
only will they have to go digital, that they must discontinue the low-power
repeater they have in Boone, since it is not going to be allowed in the
digital world. That will effectively back out over-the-air educational tv
in that university town.
Jack May
2008-01-09 23:13:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at midnight on the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds
won't
be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low power
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion of the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people
need
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
I have seen nothing on low power TV stations being exempt on AVS.com.
AVS
Post by Jack May
is the leading audio video site on the Internet. I searched the site and
didn't find anything either. I will ask on the site to see if this is
true
Post by Jack May
or just a rumor
I had lunch with a UNC-TV executive last year, and he told me that not
only will they have to go digital, that they must discontinue the low-power
repeater they have in Boone, since it is not going to be allowed in the
digital world. That will effectively back out over-the-air educational tv
in that university town.
I started a discussion on this topic on the Audio Video Science Forum. The
transition may not be smooth and pretty in some small towns. The discussion
is at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973992
George Conklin
2008-01-10 23:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at midnight
on
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds
won't
be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low power
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion of the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people
need
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
I have seen nothing on low power TV stations being exempt on AVS.com.
AVS
Post by Jack May
is the leading audio video site on the Internet. I searched the site and
didn't find anything either. I will ask on the site to see if this is
true
Post by Jack May
or just a rumor
I had lunch with a UNC-TV executive last year, and he told me that not
only will they have to go digital, that they must discontinue the low-power
repeater they have in Boone, since it is not going to be allowed in the
digital world. That will effectively back out over-the-air educational tv
in that university town.
I started a discussion on this topic on the Audio Video Science Forum.
The
Post by Jack May
transition may not be smooth and pretty in some small towns. The discussion
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973992
Digital service is an abandonment of the small towns. I note other places
the libertarians don't think there should be any over-the-air TV (everyone
should pay), while the industry picked the worst possible over-the-air
system so they could jam more channels in.
e***@no.spam
2008-01-11 18:58:46 UTC
Permalink
I note other places the libertarians don't think there should be
any over-the-air TV (everyone should pay)
Do Libertarians think the FCC should have control of the spectrum?
Bolwerk
2008-01-11 20:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
I note other places the libertarians don't think there should be
any over-the-air TV (everyone should pay)
Don't forget that capital L, Conklin. Pierre-Joseph Proudhon would be
pissed.
Post by e***@no.spam
Do Libertarians think the FCC should have control of the spectrum?
They probably don't care, as long as they can use it to promote the
doctrines of brilliant and sexy Ayn Rand.
Martin Edwards
2008-01-13 09:15:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bolwerk
Post by e***@no.spam
I note other places the libertarians don't think there should be
any over-the-air TV (everyone should pay)
Don't forget that capital L, Conklin. Pierre-Joseph Proudhon would be
pissed.
Post by e***@no.spam
Do Libertarians think the FCC should have control of the spectrum?
They probably don't care, as long as they can use it to promote the
doctrines of brilliant and sexy Ayn Rand.
Neither brilliant, nor sexy, nor really called Ayn Rand.
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From “Rollerball”
George Conklin
2008-01-11 22:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
I note other places the libertarians don't think there should be
any over-the-air TV (everyone should pay)
Do Libertarians think the FCC should have control of the spectrum?
Unclear, but perhaps only to sell it to the highest bidder.
kkt
2008-01-12 05:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by e***@no.spam
I note other places the libertarians don't think there should be
any over-the-air TV (everyone should pay)
Do Libertarians think the FCC should have control of the spectrum?
Unclear, but perhaps only to sell it to the highest bidder.
In Libertarian land, the FCC would still exist to track down and
punish anyone who used a part of the spectrum someone else had bought.

-- Patrick
George Conklin
2008-01-12 13:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by kkt
Post by George Conklin
Post by e***@no.spam
I note other places the libertarians don't think there should be
any over-the-air TV (everyone should pay)
Do Libertarians think the FCC should have control of the spectrum?
Unclear, but perhaps only to sell it to the highest bidder.
In Libertarian land, the FCC would still exist to track down and
punish anyone who used a part of the spectrum someone else had bought.
-- Patrick
Yes, but after it was sold to the highest bidder.
Martin Edwards
2008-01-13 09:16:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by kkt
Post by George Conklin
Post by e***@no.spam
I note other places the libertarians don't think there should be
any over-the-air TV (everyone should pay)
Do Libertarians think the FCC should have control of the spectrum?
Unclear, but perhaps only to sell it to the highest bidder.
In Libertarian land, the FCC would still exist to track down and
punish anyone who used a part of the spectrum someone else had bought.
-- Patrick
Using fear, surprise, er.........
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From “Rollerball”
kkt
2008-01-14 04:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Edwards
Post by kkt
Post by George Conklin
Post by e***@no.spam
I note other places the libertarians don't think there should be
any over-the-air TV (everyone should pay)
Do Libertarians think the FCC should have control of the spectrum?
Unclear, but perhaps only to sell it to the highest bidder.
In Libertarian land, the FCC would still exist to track down and
punish anyone who used a part of the spectrum someone else had bought.
-- Patrick
Using fear, surprise, er.........
In libertarianland, the FCC would probably certify when someone was
using part of the spectrum that belonged to someone else, at which
point the person it belongs to can hire a repo man to disable the
transmitter by any means necessary.

-- Patrick
e***@no.spam
2008-01-14 03:06:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by kkt
In Libertarian land, the FCC would still exist to track down and
punish anyone who used a part of the spectrum someone else had bought.
Ok, but how can anybody buy something when nobody had an ownership to sell?
Jack May
2008-01-14 05:21:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by kkt
In Libertarian land, the FCC would still exist to track down and
punish anyone who used a part of the spectrum someone else had bought.
Ok, but how can anybody buy something when nobody had an ownership to sell?
The reason the FCC is shutting down the analog stations is to sell the
spectrum for billions of dollars. The FCC derives its power from being
assigned the task of controlling interference.

Every country has a regime that delineates policies for distributing the
rights to use certain frequencies for wireless communications.

http://dsonline.computer.org/portal/site/dsonline/menuitem.6dd2a408dbe4a94be487e0606bcd45f3/index.jsp?&pName=dso_level1_article&TheCat=1015&path=dsonline/2006/10&file=w5pub.xml&
e***@no.spam
2008-01-14 05:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by e***@no.spam
Ok, but how can anybody buy something when nobody had an ownership to sell?
The reason the FCC is shutting down the analog stations is to sell the
spectrum for billions of dollars.
Ok, that has nothing to do with my question, Jack.
Jack May
2008-01-14 17:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by Jack May
Post by e***@no.spam
Ok, but how can anybody buy something when nobody had an ownership to sell?
The reason the FCC is shutting down the analog stations is to sell the
spectrum for billions of dollars.
Ok, that has nothing to do with my question, Jack.
Maybe if you ever grow up, maybe you should learn how to write coherently
kkt
2008-01-14 18:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by Jack May
Post by e***@no.spam
Ok, but how can anybody buy something when nobody had an ownership to sell?
The reason the FCC is shutting down the analog stations is to sell the
spectrum for billions of dollars.
Ok, that has nothing to do with my question, Jack.
Maybe if you ever grow up, maybe you should learn how to write coherently
You mean grammatical sentences with periods at the end?

-- Patrick
Jack May
2008-01-15 04:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by kkt
You mean grammatical sentences with periods at the end?
According to the Federal Standard English Agency (FSEA):

"The period is used to separate sentences. Since the last line of a
paragraph is separated by a paragraph return line or and end of lines, a
period serves no purpose and need not be used"












:-)
David Nebenzahl
2008-01-15 05:20:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by kkt
You mean grammatical sentences with periods at the end?
[...]
:-)
Clever, Jack. Almost fell for that. "FSEA", indeed.
Jack May
2008-01-16 04:48:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Nebenzahl
Post by kkt
You mean grammatical sentences with periods at the end?
[...]
:-)
Clever, Jack. Almost fell for that. "FSEA", indeed.
Glad you saw the smiley.

FSEA was just one of those thoughts that hit me. There are so many agencies
in the Government, you never know what is out there that is unknown.
e***@no.spam
2008-01-15 19:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Maybe if you ever grow up, maybe you should learn how to write coherently
I just love your "debating" skills.
Greg Sutherland
2008-01-14 05:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by kkt
In Libertarian land, the FCC would still exist to track down and
punish anyone who used a part of the spectrum someone else had bought.
Ok, but how can anybody buy something when nobody had an ownership to sell?
The reason the FCC is shutting down the analog stations is to sell the
spectrum for billions of dollars. The FCC derives its power from being
assigned the task of controlling interference.
Every country has a regime that delineates policies for distributing the
rights to use certain frequencies for wireless communications.
http://dsonline.computer.org/portal/site/dsonline/menuitem.6dd2a408dbe4a94be487e0606bcd45f3/index.jsp?&pName=dso_level1_article&TheCat=1015&path=dsonline/2006/10&file=w5pub.xml&
Thanks Jack NOT for continuing to past this to mtut which is an
international urban transit group where the vast majority of us could
not care less about the FCC and the maschinations of the US
communications scene.

Greg
George Conklin
2008-01-14 13:24:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by kkt
In Libertarian land, the FCC would still exist to track down and
punish anyone who used a part of the spectrum someone else had bought.
Ok, but how can anybody buy something when nobody had an ownership to sell?
It is like fleas having a fight about who owns the dog, right?
e***@no.spam
2008-01-15 19:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
It is like fleas having a fight about who owns the dog, right?
No, George. It's like libertarians claiming that something
should be sold to highest bidder by someone that doesn't
own the thing being sold.
Jack May
2008-01-11 19:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at midnight
on
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds
won't
be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low
power
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion of the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people
need
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
I have seen nothing on low power TV stations being exempt on AVS.com.
AVS
Post by Jack May
is the leading audio video site on the Internet. I searched the site
and
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
didn't find anything either. I will ask on the site to see if this is
true
Post by Jack May
or just a rumor
I had lunch with a UNC-TV executive last year, and he told me that
not
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
only will they have to go digital, that they must discontinue the low-power
repeater they have in Boone, since it is not going to be allowed in the
digital world. That will effectively back out over-the-air educational
tv
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
in that university town.
I started a discussion on this topic on the Audio Video Science Forum.
The
Post by Jack May
transition may not be smooth and pretty in some small towns. The
discussion
Post by Jack May
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973992
Digital service is an abandonment of the small towns. I note other places
the libertarians don't think there should be any over-the-air TV (everyone
should pay), while the industry picked the worst possible over-the-air
system so they could jam more channels in.
The design goal was to put HDTV into the existing structure of 6 MHz bands.
The 5th and 6th generation demodulator chips are doing an outstanding job of
receiving the new signals. I get a drop out free digital picture when the
analog signal is extremely weak and almost unwatchable. Multipath is not a
problem with the present signal according to most people.

There was a alternative modulation for mobile TV being pushed which was not
even capable of doing HDTV in a 6 MHz band and is highly susceptible to
interference from normal electrical noise from motors and other sources
inside the house. That is not a problem with the US signal.

MPEG2 compression is being used over the air. Satellite and cable have
switched to MPEG4 which cuts the data rate in half while providing a higher
quality picture. That means I can store about 150 hours of high quality
HDTV on my 750 GB DVR disk. 100 GBs of that 750 GB disk is taken by the DVR
for the two week schedule, program descriptions, 90 minute live storage, and
other features.
George Conklin
2008-01-11 22:12:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at midnight
on
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds
won't
be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low
power
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion
of
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people
need
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
I have seen nothing on low power TV stations being exempt on AVS.com.
AVS
Post by Jack May
is the leading audio video site on the Internet. I searched the site
and
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
didn't find anything either. I will ask on the site to see if this is
true
Post by Jack May
or just a rumor
I had lunch with a UNC-TV executive last year, and he told me that
not
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
only will they have to go digital, that they must discontinue the low-power
repeater they have in Boone, since it is not going to be allowed in the
digital world. That will effectively back out over-the-air educational
tv
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
in that university town.
I started a discussion on this topic on the Audio Video Science Forum.
The
Post by Jack May
transition may not be smooth and pretty in some small towns. The
discussion
Post by Jack May
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973992
Digital service is an abandonment of the small towns. I note other places
the libertarians don't think there should be any over-the-air TV (everyone
should pay), while the industry picked the worst possible over-the-air
system so they could jam more channels in.
The design goal was to put HDTV into the existing structure of 6 MHz bands.
The 5th and 6th generation demodulator chips are doing an outstanding job of
receiving the new signals. I get a drop out free digital picture when the
analog signal is extremely weak and almost unwatchable. Multipath is not a
problem with the present signal according to most people.
There was a alternative modulation for mobile TV being pushed which was not
even capable of doing HDTV in a 6 MHz band and is highly susceptible to
interference from normal electrical noise from motors and other sources
inside the house. That is not a problem with the US signal.
MPEG2 compression is being used over the air. Satellite and cable have
switched to MPEG4 which cuts the data rate in half while providing a higher
quality picture. That means I can store about 150 hours of high quality
HDTV on my 750 GB DVR disk. 100 GBs of that 750 GB disk is taken by the DVR
for the two week schedule, program descriptions, 90 minute live storage, and
other features.
Based on my experience, it is hard to get a good digital signal even 20
miles from the transmitter. By good reception I mean a constant signal
without constant pixilation. BBC, which of course is paid for by taxes on
TVs, has put up a free satellite because they know full well that with
digital signals many remote areas could no longer get over-the-air TV. But
in the USA no one wants to admit that. BBC did admit that. Broadcasters
and now government will favor urban areas and could care less about rural
ones. Unless people in rural areas will pay for satellite, they are going
to go dark.
Jack May
2008-01-11 23:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl
in
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at
midnight
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
on
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds
won't
be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low
power
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion
of
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people
need
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
I have seen nothing on low power TV stations being exempt on
AVS.com.
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
AVS
Post by Jack May
is the leading audio video site on the Internet. I searched the
site
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
and
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
didn't find anything either. I will ask on the site to see if this
is
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
true
Post by Jack May
or just a rumor
I had lunch with a UNC-TV executive last year, and he told me that
not
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
only will they have to go digital, that they must discontinue the low-power
repeater they have in Boone, since it is not going to be allowed in
the
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
digital world. That will effectively back out over-the-air
educational
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
tv
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
in that university town.
I started a discussion on this topic on the Audio Video Science Forum.
The
Post by Jack May
transition may not be smooth and pretty in some small towns. The
discussion
Post by Jack May
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973992
Digital service is an abandonment of the small towns. I note other places
the libertarians don't think there should be any over-the-air TV
(everyone
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
should pay), while the industry picked the worst possible over-the-air
system so they could jam more channels in.
The design goal was to put HDTV into the existing structure of 6 MHz
bands.
Post by Jack May
The 5th and 6th generation demodulator chips are doing an outstanding job
of
Post by Jack May
receiving the new signals. I get a drop out free digital picture when the
analog signal is extremely weak and almost unwatchable. Multipath is not
a
Post by Jack May
problem with the present signal according to most people.
There was a alternative modulation for mobile TV being pushed which was
not
Post by Jack May
even capable of doing HDTV in a 6 MHz band and is highly susceptible to
interference from normal electrical noise from motors and other sources
inside the house. That is not a problem with the US signal.
MPEG2 compression is being used over the air. Satellite and cable have
switched to MPEG4 which cuts the data rate in half while providing a
higher
Post by Jack May
quality picture. That means I can store about 150 hours of high quality
HDTV on my 750 GB DVR disk. 100 GBs of that 750 GB disk is taken by the
DVR
Post by Jack May
for the two week schedule, program descriptions, 90 minute live storage,
and
Post by Jack May
other features.
Based on my experience, it is hard to get a good digital signal even 20
miles from the transmitter. By good reception I mean a constant signal
without constant pixilation. BBC, which of course is paid for by taxes on
TVs, has put up a free satellite because they know full well that with
digital signals many remote areas could no longer get over-the-air TV.
But
in the USA no one wants to admit that. BBC did admit that. Broadcasters
and now government will favor urban areas and could care less about rural
ones. Unless people in rural areas will pay for satellite, they are going
to go dark.
I am a little over 20 miles from the cluster of TV towers on top of hill in
San Francisco and have no problem receiving a solid digital picture.

I even use an indoor antenna on the bottom floor of my two story house. I
also have high hills on each side of the SF bay that reflect signals to
produce multipath.

If your digital reception electronics is old, then the demodulator will not
be near as good as present demodulators. That would easily explain
reception problems.

The demodulators have been repeatedly improved as each generation of new
demodulator chips has been developed. Some of the new digital TVs throw in
a low quality tuner and demodulator to save money.

The best antenna to use is a simple antenna with 8 or more bow time element
with a wire screen reflector sold by Radio Shack and other electronics
stores. Of course you may have terrain problems and trees that may cause
the problems.
George Conklin
2008-01-12 13:19:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed.
I
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would
find
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl
in
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at
midnight
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
on
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds
won't
be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low
power
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion
of
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people
need
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
I have seen nothing on low power TV stations being exempt on
AVS.com.
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
AVS
Post by Jack May
is the leading audio video site on the Internet. I searched the
site
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
and
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
didn't find anything either. I will ask on the site to see if this
is
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
true
Post by Jack May
or just a rumor
I had lunch with a UNC-TV executive last year, and he told me that
not
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
only will they have to go digital, that they must discontinue the low-power
repeater they have in Boone, since it is not going to be allowed in
the
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
digital world. That will effectively back out over-the-air
educational
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
tv
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
in that university town.
I started a discussion on this topic on the Audio Video Science Forum.
The
Post by Jack May
transition may not be smooth and pretty in some small towns. The
discussion
Post by Jack May
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973992
Digital service is an abandonment of the small towns. I note other places
the libertarians don't think there should be any over-the-air TV
(everyone
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
should pay), while the industry picked the worst possible
over-the-air
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
system so they could jam more channels in.
The design goal was to put HDTV into the existing structure of 6 MHz
bands.
Post by Jack May
The 5th and 6th generation demodulator chips are doing an outstanding job
of
Post by Jack May
receiving the new signals. I get a drop out free digital picture when the
analog signal is extremely weak and almost unwatchable. Multipath is not
a
Post by Jack May
problem with the present signal according to most people.
There was a alternative modulation for mobile TV being pushed which was
not
Post by Jack May
even capable of doing HDTV in a 6 MHz band and is highly susceptible to
interference from normal electrical noise from motors and other sources
inside the house. That is not a problem with the US signal.
MPEG2 compression is being used over the air. Satellite and cable have
switched to MPEG4 which cuts the data rate in half while providing a
higher
Post by Jack May
quality picture. That means I can store about 150 hours of high quality
HDTV on my 750 GB DVR disk. 100 GBs of that 750 GB disk is taken by the
DVR
Post by Jack May
for the two week schedule, program descriptions, 90 minute live storage,
and
Post by Jack May
other features.
Based on my experience, it is hard to get a good digital signal even 20
miles from the transmitter. By good reception I mean a constant signal
without constant pixilation. BBC, which of course is paid for by
taxes
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
on
TVs, has put up a free satellite because they know full well that with
digital signals many remote areas could no longer get over-the-air TV.
But
in the USA no one wants to admit that. BBC did admit that.
Broadcasters
Post by Jack May
Post by James Robinson
and now government will favor urban areas and could care less about rural
ones. Unless people in rural areas will pay for satellite, they are going
to go dark.
I am a little over 20 miles from the cluster of TV towers on top of hill in
San Francisco and have no problem receiving a solid digital picture.
I even use an indoor antenna on the bottom floor of my two story house.
I
Post by Jack May
also have high hills on each side of the SF bay that reflect signals to
produce multipath.
If your digital reception electronics is old, then the demodulator will not
be near as good as present demodulators. That would easily explain
reception problems.
Tell BBC that...they at least admit the issue. My HDTV is 1 year old,
and according to you obsolete? And today's sets? Obsolete in 5 weeks?
Post by Jack May
The demodulators have been repeatedly improved as each generation of new
demodulator chips has been developed. Some of the new digital TVs throw in
a low quality tuner and demodulator to save money.
The best antenna to use is a simple antenna with 8 or more bow time element
with a wire screen reflector sold by Radio Shack and other electronics
stores. Of course you may have terrain problems and trees that may cause
the problems.
Trees. Yes. We have to get rid of trees. Makes sense. The digital
world can't have trees.
Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
2008-01-12 17:33:47 UTC
Permalink
George Conklin wrote: [heh. Spell checker wants to replace "Conklin"
with "Tinkling"! Aint AI wonderful?]

[Nothing worth weeding through line after line of quoted debris to find]

If you can't solve the problem of the idiot quoting, I can.
--
Requiescas in pace o email

Ex turpi causa non oritur actio

http://members.cox.net/larrysheldon/
George Conklin
2008-01-12 20:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
George Conklin wrote: [heh. Spell checker wants to replace "Conklin"
with "Tinkling"! Aint AI wonderful?]
[Nothing worth weeding through line after line of quoted debris to find]
If you can't solve the problem of the idiot quoting, I can.
--
Requiescas in pace o email
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio
http://members.cox.net/larrysheldon/
Being your usual stupid self again.
e***@no.spam
2008-01-14 03:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Being your usual stupid self again.
Nice rebuttal, George.
Jack May
2008-01-12 21:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Tell BBC that...they at least admit the issue. My HDTV is 1 year old,
and according to you obsolete? And today's sets? Obsolete in 5 weeks?
There is a high probability that your local stations are transmitting
digital with low power. A lot of stations transmit digital with low power
to save money on the electric bill and the cost of new equipment.

At first there were so few people that even had digital capabilities that it
had no effect on their advertising revenues. Viewership is still not
measured by Nielson on digital channels the last I heard. This means the
stations would rather that you view analog instead of digital to increase
their ratings.

With the analog stations going away next year, maybe the stations will
increase the power of digital channels since they will then be the only
source of revenue.

Of course with few people out where you live, maybe they won't care. In the
SF Bay area there is still a high density of people 70 or more miles from
SF. They may have a lot of power on digital because of the large long
distance audience.
g***@yahoo.com
2008-01-13 06:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
There is a high probability that your local stations are transmitting
digital with low power. A lot of stations transmit digital with low power
to save money on the electric bill and the cost of new equipment.
There is a longish article in today's Oreognian (Portland, OR newspaper)
that talks about training the newscasters to put on new types of makeup
for the start of HDTV broadcasting towards the end of this month.

So, apparently some places (including here) may not even have HDTV
broadcast just yet.
--
-Glennl
e-mail hint: add 1 to quantity after gl to get 4317.
Jack May
2008-01-13 18:35:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Post by Jack May
There is a high probability that your local stations are transmitting
digital with low power. A lot of stations transmit digital with low power
to save money on the electric bill and the cost of new equipment.
There is a longish article in today's Oreognian (Portland, OR newspaper)
that talks about training the newscasters to put on new types of makeup
for the start of HDTV broadcasting towards the end of this month.
So, apparently some places (including here) may not even have HDTV
broadcast just yet.
I think all high power stations are now at least digital by law. All of
them may not be transmitting HDTV.

Most newscast are not in HDTV because they would have to build new studios,
buy new electronics for HDTV editing, new HDTV cameras for the people out in
the field, and yes HDTV makes women especially look their age more than they
want to. New makeup designed for HDTV is mandatory.

It is expensive and may not increase their audience size enough to make it
cost effective. With regular TV, crappy sets are OK because the fuzzy
picture covers up the poor construction. With HDTV, poor quality design
and construction shows up really bad. The color transmitted by HDTV is so
good that really good set design is necessary.

All the network scripted programs are in HDTV and most stations pass those
shows along. Most of what I record on my DVR is network HDTV. Now that
DirecTv has significantly increased HDTV, my recording of those shows is
starting to increase, especially for movies.

There are still too many DirecTv channels claiming they are HDTV when all
they do is stretch and interpolate regular TV, which does not look anywhere
near as good as HDTV.
George Conklin
2008-01-13 23:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Post by Jack May
There is a high probability that your local stations are transmitting
digital with low power. A lot of stations transmit digital with low power
to save money on the electric bill and the cost of new equipment.
There is a longish article in today's Oreognian (Portland, OR newspaper)
that talks about training the newscasters to put on new types of makeup
for the start of HDTV broadcasting towards the end of this month.
So, apparently some places (including here) may not even have HDTV
broadcast just yet.
I think all high power stations are now at least digital by law. All of
them may not be transmitting HDTV.
Most newscast are not in HDTV because they would have to build new studios,
buy new electronics for HDTV editing, new HDTV cameras for the people out in
the field, and yes HDTV makes women especially look their age more than they
want to. New makeup designed for HDTV is mandatory.
It is expensive and may not increase their audience size enough to make it
cost effective. With regular TV, crappy sets are OK because the fuzzy
picture covers up the poor construction. With HDTV, poor quality design
and construction shows up really bad. The color transmitted by HDTV is so
good that really good set design is necessary.
All the network scripted programs are in HDTV and most stations pass those
shows along. Most of what I record on my DVR is network HDTV. Now that
DirecTv has significantly increased HDTV, my recording of those shows is
starting to increase, especially for movies.
There are still too many DirecTv channels claiming they are HDTV when all
they do is stretch and interpolate regular TV, which does not look anywhere
near as good as HDTV.
Oh come on. Our local channel 5 has been the leader in the nation for
HDTV, starting local news in HDTV before the networks provided any at all.
We all know what the best technical standards are like in this region since
they all but began here. I for one love HDTV, but my wife thinks it a waste
of time. I tried to show her the difference (our HDTV is in the family room
in the basement, where she seldom ventures these days). She could not see
it. I think that is why blu-ray CDs are so slow to take off. Many people
don't see why they are needed.
Peter Schleifer
2008-01-14 00:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Most newscast are not in HDTV because they would have to build new studios,
buy new electronics for HDTV editing, new HDTV cameras for the people out in
the field, and yes HDTV makes women especially look their age more than they
want to. New makeup designed for HDTV is mandatory.
I have read that this is a concern for the porn industry also in
moving to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD...
--
Peter Schleifer
"Save me from the people who would save me from myself"
Andrew Tompkins
2008-01-13 21:43:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Post by Jack May
There is a high probability that your local stations are transmitting
digital with low power. A lot of stations transmit digital with low power
to save money on the electric bill and the cost of new equipment.
There is a longish article in today's Oreognian (Portland, OR newspaper)
that talks about training the newscasters to put on new types of makeup
for the start of HDTV broadcasting towards the end of this month.
So, apparently some places (including here) may not even have HDTV
broadcast just yet.
As far as I know, they've been broadcasting HD for a while. They just
haven't been broadcasting the news in HD. They are in the process of
reconfiguring their primary news studio for HD and are currently
broadcasting the news from their secondary studio.
--
--Andy
Beaverton, OR
George Conklin
2008-01-13 23:07:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Tompkins
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Post by Jack May
There is a high probability that your local stations are transmitting
digital with low power. A lot of stations transmit digital with low power
to save money on the electric bill and the cost of new equipment.
There is a longish article in today's Oreognian (Portland, OR newspaper)
that talks about training the newscasters to put on new types of makeup
for the start of HDTV broadcasting towards the end of this month.
So, apparently some places (including here) may not even have HDTV
broadcast just yet.
As far as I know, they've been broadcasting HD for a while. They just
haven't been broadcasting the news in HD. They are in the process of
reconfiguring their primary news studio for HD and are currently
broadcasting the news from their secondary studio.
Well, in Raleigh, NC, they started with the local news in HD about 5
years ago.
Jack May
2008-01-14 00:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Well, in Raleigh, NC, they started with the local news in HD about 5
years ago.
Yes that station (WRAL?) has been a well known leader for HDTV in the
nation. A lot of us were envious of people that could get that station.

Of the five main news station in the SF Bay area, only two broadcast the
local news in HDTV. They all, except for one, are transmitting HDTV from
networks regularly. The network broadcasts in HDTV started in the bay area
long before we had the first station to do the local news in HDTV.
George Conklin
2008-01-14 13:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Well, in Raleigh, NC, they started with the local news in HD about 5
years ago.
Yes that station (WRAL?) has been a well known leader for HDTV in the
nation. A lot of us were envious of people that could get that station.
Of the five main news station in the SF Bay area, only two broadcast the
local news in HDTV. They all, except for one, are transmitting HDTV from
networks regularly. The network broadcasts in HDTV started in the bay area
long before we had the first station to do the local news in HDTV.
Yes, it is WRAL. Great signal too. But my wife cannot tell the difference
beween HDTV and regular, even when I explain it and show her the difference.
She thinks it all a waste of time!!!
But she understand we probably are going to replace all the TVs. I note
that in UK they are wondering about how to recycle 8 million TVs which are
going to be thrown out.
Jack May
2008-01-14 17:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by Jack May
Post by George Conklin
Well, in Raleigh, NC, they started with the local news in HD about 5
years ago.
Yes that station (WRAL?) has been a well known leader for HDTV in the
nation. A lot of us were envious of people that could get that station.
Of the five main news station in the SF Bay area, only two broadcast the
local news in HDTV. They all, except for one, are transmitting HDTV from
networks regularly. The network broadcasts in HDTV started in the bay
area
Post by Jack May
long before we had the first station to do the local news in HDTV.
Yes, it is WRAL. Great signal too. But my wife cannot tell the difference
beween HDTV and regular, even when I explain it and show her the difference.
She thinks it all a waste of time!!!
But she understand we probably are going to replace all the TVs. I note
that in UK they are wondering about how to recycle 8 million TVs which are
going to be thrown out.
Most women only care about the story and are just as happy to watch it on
VHS and don't care about HDTV. Guys often talk about the "wife acceptance
factor" (WAF) as they try to justify spending money on HDTV.

Guys some times go through major efforts to get the WAF. There are women
who are really into HDTV, but they are a small percentage.

A lot of guys can't stand to watch regular TV once they get HDTV. It is a
real letdown to me if a show if something is not in HD. It will need be a
really outstanding show before I will watch it if it is not HD.
David Nebenzahl
2008-01-14 20:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Most women only care about the story and are just as happy to watch it on
VHS and don't care about HDTV. Guys often talk about the "wife acceptance
factor" (WAF) as they try to justify spending money on HDTV.
Guys some times go through major efforts to get the WAF. There are women
who are really into HDTV, but they are a small percentage.
A lot of guys can't stand to watch regular TV once they get HDTV. It is a
real letdown to me if a show if something is not in HD. It will need be a
really outstanding show before I will watch it if it is not HD.
Jack May: All man, all testosterone.
Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
2008-01-14 21:01:35 UTC
Permalink
David Nebenzahl wrote:

[nothing worth ever letting through the filters again]
--
Requiescas in pace o email

Ex turpi causa non oritur actio

http://members.cox.net/larrysheldon/
Jack May
2008-01-14 22:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Nebenzahl
Jack May: All man, all testosterone.
Wow, poor David has never learned that men and women are not exactly the
same.
David Nebenzahl
2008-01-15 01:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by David Nebenzahl
Jack May: All man, all testosterone.
Wow, poor David has never learned that men and women are not exactly the
same.
Yeah, men like to watch sports on HD TV and women like to clean things
and cook dinner.

It must be true, since every stereotype on TV says so ...
e***@no.spam
2008-01-15 19:49:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Nebenzahl
Jack May: All man, all testosterone.
Only his looks like this:

http://tinyurl.com/386936
Scott in SoCal
2008-01-15 02:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Most women only care about the story and are just as happy to watch it on
VHS and don't care about HDTV.
That right there is the leading candidcate for "Sexist Statement of
2008."
--
"You can all kiss my @ss!"
- Carl Rogers, Message-ID: <IE1ej.2353$***@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>
Bolwerk
2008-01-15 03:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott in SoCal
Post by Jack May
Most women only care about the story and are just as happy to watch it on
VHS and don't care about HDTV.
That right there is the leading candidcate for "Sexist Statement of
2008."
Well, it reflects badly on men, not women, if true. Jack must be a
feminazi, on top of all his other nazi-esque traits.

And for f*ck's sake, enough about the idiot box.
Jack May
2008-01-15 04:20:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott in SoCal
Post by Jack May
Most women only care about the story and are just as happy to watch it on
VHS and don't care about HDTV.
That right there is the leading candidcate for "Sexist Statement of
2008."
So you think there are no differences between men and women? Wow, you have
really led an isolated life. There was even a story on the network national
news today about how women and men remember details.

Women store events and emotions together on one side of the brain. Men
store events and emotions in different parts of the brain.

This was determined with a brain scanning machine to see exactly where
memories are stored. Are you now going to now call that sexist and drag us
back into dark ages where we are not allowed to understand reality?

Brain scans are commonly used now to understand how the brain works. Your
labeling of it sexist just shows that you are very ignorant of what is
known.
David Nebenzahl
2008-01-15 05:23:39 UTC
Permalink
and negligence, and in the end to security. I think I have found that no
discourses have been more remarkably blessed, than those in which the
doctrine of God's absolute sovereignty with regard to the salvation of
sinners, and His just liberty with regard to answering the prayers, or
succeeding the pains, of natural men, continuing such, have been
insisted on. I never found so much immediate saving fruit, in any
measure, of any discourses I have offered to my congregation, as some
from these words, Rom. iii. 19. "That every mouth may be stopped;"
endeavoring to show from thence that it would be just with God for ever
to reject and cast off mere natural men.
[...]

Oh, yeah? Well, I see you and raise you the following:


Like the Erlking in Goethe's famous poem, the maleficence of Jack May's
doctrines can sometimes be imperceptible. The purpose of this letter is
therefore to expose the pigheaded nature of Jack's morals and let you
draw your own conclusions about Jack's motives. If you disagree with my
claim that anyone the least bit knowledgeable about Jack's shameless
background would know that Jack sees life as a beer-guzzling game
without any rules, then read no further. Which brings me to my point.
It's one thing to feed us ever-larger doses of his lies and crackpot
assumptions, but wanting to inject his lethal poison into our children's
minds and souls is going too far. One may very well question whether he
gets perfervid about statism. Still, most people will eventually be
convinced that he uses obscure words like "institutionalization" and
"counterestablishment" to conceal his agenda to exert more and more
control over other individuals. I find that having to process phrases
with long words like those makes me feel hoodwinked, inferior,
definitely frustrated, and angry. That's why I strive for utmost clarity
whenever I explain to others that Jack uses academicism as a subtle
poison to dry up the sound serum of morality on which this country used
to thrive. We can therefore extrapolate that Jack will probably never
understand why he scares me so much. And he clearly does scare me: His
bruta fulmina are scary, his expostulations are scary, and most of all,
I have a problem with his use of the phrase, "We all know that ...".
With this phrase, Jack doesn't need to prove his claim that he can
absorb mana by devouring his nemeses' brains; he merely accepts it as
fact. To put it another way, he publicly disavows his ties to
charlatanism while secretly encouraging his provocateurs to blame those
who have no power to change the current direction of events. Now, I
could go off on that point alone, but he may be reasonably cunning with
words. However, he is utterly scornful with everything else.

You've never heard Jack announce that he plans to ensure that there can
never in the future be accord, unity, or a common, agreed-upon destiny
among the citizens of this once-great nation? Well, Jack has repeatedly
enunciated such a plan but in his typically convoluted way. Often, the
lure of an articulate new pundit, a well-financed attention-getting
program, an effective audience generator, hot new "inside" information,
or a professionally produced exposé is irresistible to simple-minded,
sick renegades who want to dilute the nation's sense of common purpose
and shared sacrifice. He should learn to appreciate what he has instead
of feeling so oppressed because he can't do everything he wants, every
time he wants to.

By allowing Jack to hijack the word "chromatographic" and use it to
demand that loyalty to filthy brutish-types supersedes personal loyalty
we are selling our souls for dross. Instead, we should be striving to
act against injustice, whether it concerns drunk driving, domestic
violence, or even totalitarianism. He is firmly convinced that "the
norm" shouldn't have to worry about how the exceptions feel. His belief
is controverted, however, by the weight of the evidence indicating that
I welcome Jack's comments. However, Jack needs to realize that he
maintains that once he has approved of something it can't possibly be
pouty. This is hardly the case. Rather, there is growing evidence that
says, to the contrary, that I am a law-and-order kind of person. I hate
to see crimes go unpunished. That's why I certainly hope that Jack
serves a long prison term for his illegal attempts to keep a close eye
on those who look like they might think an unapproved thought.

Lest you think that I'm talking out of my hat here, I should point out
that I want to unify our community. Jack, in contrast, wants to drive
divisive ideological wedges through it. Almost everyone will
wholeheartedly agree that I find it amusing how all thinking people
simultaneously flinched when they heard him insist that a totalitarian
dictatorship is the best form of government we could possibly have, but
there's a lot of daylight between his views and mine. Jack believes that
his calumnies won't be used for political retribution while I,
hardheaded cynic that I am, assert that I am more than merely surprised
by his willingness to preach fear and ignorance. I'm shocked, shocked.
And, as if that weren't enough, every time Jack gets caught trying to
use lethal violence as a source of humor, he promises he'll never do so
again. Subsequently, his compeers always jump in and explain that he
really shouldn't be blamed even if he does because, as they avouch,
those of us who oppose him would rather run than fight.

I, not being one of the many pestilential carpetbaggers of this world,
plan to clarify and correct some of the inaccuracies present in Jack's
harangues. This is a choice I have made; your choice is up to you. But
let me remind you that Jack's sniffish sophistries can be quite
educational. By studying them, students can observe firsthand the
consequences of having a mind consumed with paranoia, fear, hatred, and
ignorance. Jack's lies come in many forms. Some of his lies are in the
form of values. Others are in the form of self-fulfilling prophecies.
Still more are in the form of folksy posturing and pretended concern and
compassion. The end.
Jack May
2008-01-09 23:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Robinson
Post by Jack May
Well change is happening no matter what anger is expressed. I
suspect if I say nothing, some of the rail advocates would find that
they are only getting noise on all channels after the Superbowl in
2009.
You make it sound like every TV will turn into a pumpkin at midnight on the
changeover date. Of course those who get cable or satellite feeds won't be
affected, which is probably the majority of the country.
Further, only full power stations will be affected, and many low power
community transmitters will remain analog. There is a discussion of the
issue here, with cautions about the type of converter box that people need
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iiNo8In2FguQeKvOzx4O62OIm1mgD8U1VFPO1
The situation for low power and translator stations is being worked out by
the FCC now. It was not part of the original rule. There may be some low
power stations and translators that may be analog probably until there is
time for a conversion to digital to be made or until they change to new
frequencies.

There is conversion work going on with some of these stations now. Utah has
been working on the conversion for a few years.

The discussion resulting from me asking the question about low power and
converter TV stations is now on the AVS Forum at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973992
e***@no.spam
2008-01-09 18:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
I have thrown no tantrums.
Your posts belie that claim, Jack.
Jack May
2008-01-09 18:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by Jack May
I have thrown no tantrums.
Your posts belie that claim, Jack.
I have not posted any angry message on this topic.
e***@no.spam
2008-01-10 01:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
I have thrown no tantrums.
I have not posted any angry message on this topic.
You can't even keep the claim straight, Jack.
Bolwerk
2008-01-10 03:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
I have thrown no tantrums.
I have not posted any angry message on this topic.
You can't even keep the claim straight, Jack.
"I'm not being a selfish, arrogant, myopic dickhead in this post."
Miles Bader
2008-01-10 14:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@no.spam
Post by Jack May
Post by Jack May
I have thrown no tantrums.
I have not posted any angry message on this topic.
You can't even keep the claim straight, Jack.
Must be the rum... [*]

[*] Courtesy ExxonMobil, American Petroleum Institude, Shell Oil, Ford
Motor Company, General Motors Corp, DaimlerChrysler, etc

-Miles
--
`The suburb is an obsolete and contradictory form of human settlement'
JG
2008-01-05 17:46:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
The boxes will not allow you to receive HDTV which can not be displayed on
analog TVs.
Isn't that the point of the converter..HDTV to analog ?? VCR users on
rabbit ears will likely need a separate converter to record and watch
different stations
Sir Ray
2008-01-05 18:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by JG
Post by Jack May
The boxes will not allow you to receive HDTV which can not be displayed on
analog TVs.
Isn't that the point of the converter..HDTV to analog ?? VCR users on
rabbit ears will likely need a separate converter to record and watch
different stations
No, it's digital broadcasting to Analog signal - HDTV is a different
animal (and probably a premium one) altogether.
In fact, regular digital broadcasting can be worse definition than
analog, depending on how narrow they cut the bandwidth per channel
(reduced sampling rate, crappier resolution, higher compression etc.)
to stuff even more channels in their alloted bandwidth.
Here's one FAQ (yeah, the site's got an agenda, but you'll get the
general idea): http://www.dbsinstall.com/hdtv/HDTV_reality.asp
g***@yahoo.com
2008-01-07 06:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
The coupons are going fast and quantity is limited. If you don't have the
capability to receive digital TV stations, you might want to sign up to get
https://www.dtv2009.gov/
or
1-888-DTV-2009
What happens to households that currently don't have a TV in the house due
to the internet being a much more efficient way of wasting time?
--
-Glennl
e-mail hint: add 1 to quantity after gl to get 4317.
Jack May
2008-01-07 18:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Post by Jack May
The coupons are going fast and quantity is limited. If you don't have the
capability to receive digital TV stations, you might want to sign up to get
https://www.dtv2009.gov/
or
1-888-DTV-2009
What happens to households that currently don't have a TV in the house due
to the internet being a much more efficient way of wasting time?
But TVs are being shown at CES this week that integrate Internet surfing and
TV to increase your wasting of time.

So when a URL is shown in a commercial you can instantly go to the site and
increase the effectiveness of the ad and order the product :-)

Since my HDTV DVR has a 750 GB disc, I don't see many commercials. Since
DirecTV has moved from MPEG2 to MPEG4, that means I can store about 150
hours of HD to get me through reruns and long writer strikes

Of course there have been recent stories that Internet advertising is more
effective and cheaper than TV ads. The advertisers are probably happy that
you are more accessible to them since eliminating the TV.
Martin Edwards
2008-01-08 14:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Post by Jack May
The coupons are going fast and quantity is limited. If you don't have the
capability to receive digital TV stations, you might want to sign up to get
https://www.dtv2009.gov/
or
1-888-DTV-2009
What happens to households that currently don't have a TV in the house due
to the internet being a much more efficient way of wasting time?
But TVs are being shown at CES this week that integrate Internet surfing and
TV to increase your wasting of time.
So when a URL is shown in a commercial you can instantly go to the site and
increase the effectiveness of the ad and order the product :-)
Since my HDTV DVR has a 750 GB disc, I don't see many commercials. Since
DirecTV has moved from MPEG2 to MPEG4, that means I can store about 150
hours of HD to get me through reruns and long writer strikes
Of course there have been recent stories that Internet advertising is more
effective and cheaper than TV ads. The advertisers are probably happy that
you are more accessible to them since eliminating the TV.
The last thing I remember, I was running for the door.
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From “Rollerball”
Bolwerk
2008-01-09 06:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Post by Jack May
The coupons are going fast and quantity is limited. If you don't have the
capability to receive digital TV stations, you might want to sign up to get
https://www.dtv2009.gov/
or
1-888-DTV-2009
What happens to households that currently don't have a TV in the house due
to the internet being a much more efficient way of wasting time?
Heh, aye, if you think about it, if there is *any* widespread technology
that might be on its way out, TV could be it. Why would anybody subject
themselves to being fed information at certain, scheduled times? Once
slightly more bandwidth becomes common, TV is probably done for.
g***@yahoo.com
2008-01-09 07:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bolwerk
Post by g***@yahoo.com
What happens to households that currently don't have a TV in the house due
to the internet being a much more efficient way of wasting time?
Heh, aye, if you think about it, if there is *any* widespread technology
that might be on its way out, TV could be it. Why would anybody subject
themselves to being fed information at certain, scheduled times? Once
slightly more bandwidth becomes common, TV is probably done for.
With the writers strike going on, I imagine that the crap that is being
fed at those particular times is particularly crappy - though except for a
Trailblazers game at a relative's house I haven't seen anything since the
strike. Except of course for a few news clips I got off the BBC web site
and other such internet based "TV".

The writers, I think, called this one right: without a share of internet
sales, no deal. They already see that traditional broadcast TV is going
to be very different soon.
--
-Glennl
e-mail hint: add 1 to quantity after gl to get 4317.
Bolwerk
2008-01-10 17:25:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Post by Bolwerk
Post by g***@yahoo.com
What happens to households that currently don't have a TV in the house due
to the internet being a much more efficient way of wasting time?
Heh, aye, if you think about it, if there is *any* widespread technology
that might be on its way out, TV could be it. Why would anybody subject
themselves to being fed information at certain, scheduled times? Once
slightly more bandwidth becomes common, TV is probably done for.
With the writers strike going on, I imagine that the crap that is being
fed at those particular times is particularly crappy - though except for a
Trailblazers game at a relative's house I haven't seen anything since the
strike. Except of course for a few news clips I got off the BBC web site
and other such internet based "TV".
Well, if I recall my history properly, it was a printers' strike that
made the evening news "respectable."
Post by g***@yahoo.com
The writers, I think, called this one right: without a share of internet
sales, no deal. They already see that traditional broadcast TV is going
to be very different soon.
Yeah, well, it's going to be gone soon, or at least someday. You can
already see things like "On Demand" pay per view popping up. It hasn't
quite happened yet, but the notion that you must be somewhere at a
certain time to catch a show being broadcast will disappear when the
Internet can offer the same picture quality as TV, whilst being equally
instantaneous.
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