Before We See a Bike Friendly World

[ComandanteBanana]

We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

So, we can wait for the world to notice us and open bike facilities
for us, but before we must part with the mentality that bigger is
better (SUVs) and that the sprawl is the ultimate solution to escape
the urban jungle...

I didn't want to talk about the monkey, but he knows all about
cooperative living...

What is a TND?

The acronym TND stands for Traditional Neighborhood Development, a
comprehensive planning system that includes a variety of housing types
and land uses in a defined area. The variety of uses permits
educational facilities, civic buildings and commercial establishments
to be located within walking distance of private homes. A TND is
served by a network of paths, streets and lanes suitable for
pedestrians as well as vehicles. This provides residents the option of
walking, biking or driving to places within their neighborhood.
Present and future modes of transit are also considered during the
planning stages.

Public and private spaces have equal importance, creating a balanced
community that serves a wide range of home and business owners. The
inclusion of civic buildings and civic space -- in the form of plazas,
greens, parks and squares -- enhances community identity and value.

For more information about new urbanism, see the article Welcome to
the New Urbanism.

Hey, you can even check such neighborhoods near you and take a spin
with your bike --which I plan to do.

TND Neighborhoods by State and Country

http://tndtownpaper.com/neighborhoods.htm


WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(reason #1000: because we need to live in bike friendly places)
http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

[George Conklin]

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

   Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

Not sure what you mean, that Europeans cities are mostly populated by
immigrants?

Well, they don't live in American style sprawls either. And before
they build they think about public transportation.

[Tim McNamara]

Post by George Conklin
...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

[George Conklin]

Post by Tim McNamara

Post by George Conklin
...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Tim McNamara

Post by George Conklin
...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?

True, Europe isn't perfect either.

Tadej

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Tim McNamara

Post by George Conklin
...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially in
Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being very
strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of continental
Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?

I lived in a single family house (on a large lot, no less) in Germany. I
could still walk or bike to any place in town. And if you were willing to
spend some time at it, it was possible to walk to the next town as well,
though it was quicker to bike.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tadej Brezina

...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

 Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs."  Still are, for
that matter.

   The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city.  The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city.  The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
True, Europe isn't perfect either.

One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
the SUV to impress the neighbors...

How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
still too many. ;)

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by George Conklin

Post by Tim McNamara

Post by George Conklin
...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
True, Europe isn't perfect either.

One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
the SUV to impress the neighbors...

True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
beautiful, happy, etc.

Ad impress the neighbours.
I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
neighbour with the same just in blue?

Post by ComandanteBanana
How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
still too many. ;)

The on-street perceived prevalence is dramatically increasing. But the
statistics say some other picture. Some low single digit percentage I do
not have at hand right now.

Tadej

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by George Conklin

Post by Tim McNamara

Post by George Conklin
...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
True, Europe isn't perfect either.

One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
the SUV to impress the neighbors...

True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
beautiful, happy, etc.
Ad impress the neighbours.
I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do you
materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the neighbour
with the same just in blue?

I think it's more "Look how homogenous we are, especially compared to THOSE
people. Keep up the good work! You too!"

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tadej Brezina

...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

 Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs."  Still are, for
that matter.

   The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city.  The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city.  The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
True, Europe isn't perfect either.

One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
the SUV to impress the neighbors...

True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
beautiful, happy, etc.

I'm all for labeling cigarettes and American TV shows with the same
message: "THIS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH AND OTHERS, STUPID!"

Post by Tadej Brezina
Ad impress the neighbours.
I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
neighbour with the same just in blue?

Well, it's not only the color, it's also the rims, which can sometimes
can be quite flashy --and expensive...

Loading Image...

The thing is that you must stand out, even if you look cheap. ;)

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana
How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
still too many. ;)

The on-street perceived prevalence is dramatically increasing. But the
statistics say some other picture. Some low single digit percentage I do
not have at hand right now.

So long as they remain under .001% of vehicles, they shouldn't be a
problem. ;)

Tell me, how prevalent are the GATED COMMUNITIES, which I consider
another byproduct of Banana Republic (together with the SUVs). Quite
common in place like Costa Rica, and even South Florida, but out of
place in W. Europe, I hope. This is important since there are
proposals like these in the website above...

"The proposed germanization of South Florida is seen by many in the
region as the only way to guarantee some form of solidity and peace."

[ComandanteBanana]

Originally Posted by crhilton
"I think the trouble is that we're just too obsessed with our homes.
Your house is the American dream, and the American dream is the
brainwashing every child grows up with. Sometimes it's expanded to
cars and the consumption of meat, but it's mostly about the house."

You're right. The Big House is a Big Problem. And everything big is a
big problem.

And bicycles are a big part of the solution...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The revolution starts when you ride a bike. You think of it as a
kinder, gentler vehicle that will help keep Peace as well as save the
Environment, and make you Sexy."

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

[ComandanteBanana]

(These guys are pushing me to ride a bike to lead the revolution. Is
it fair?)

Originally Posted by noisebeam
"If you really don't like pollution and don't like cars, why don't you
just get up 10min earlier - be part of the solution you ask for.
Perhaps you are out kayaking too late at night."

...

I can understand the criticism of the last two posts (do what you
preach), but let me remind you that I'm not willing to die just as a
dog.

If I die riding a bike, it will be for a cause (the revolution),
wearing T-shirts that will make us part of an organized effort.

Hey, no profits. Just for the revolution.

***

Originally Posted by SSP
'No offense, but...what crap!

Real "revolutionaries" risked "their lives, their fortunes, and their
sacred honor" to found this country.

Someone who sells anti-oil T-shirts, but is afraid to ride on the
streets, hardly qualifies as a "revolutionary".


It's as if George Washington didn't cross the Potomac in the dead of
winter, but instead sold silly signs criticizing the British.
Sheesh....'

...

Wrong metaphor: NO GENERAL WOULD LAUNCH A REVOLUTION WITHOUT AN
ARMY!!!

You'd need at least a troop of monkeys!

By the way, monkeys are smarter than dogs.

[ComandanteBanana]

(Here I re-take the subject of God and bikes. I hope I don't make you
think too much!)

IS GOD BIG OR SMALL?

It's not a trivial question since a Big God would favor the Christians
who favor Big Houses, Big SUVs and Big Business...

A Small God though would favor compact, environmentally friendly
houses, and everything that's small and smart. So I leave you to
ponder about the nature of God, and why he created such an incredibly
big Universe to house such small creatures as the humans...

Those who can't figure it out are probably Atheists. ;)

Originally Posted by crhilton
"I think the trouble is that we're just too obsessed with our homes.
Your house is the American dream, and the American dream is the
brainwashing every child grows up with. Sometimes it's expanded to
cars and the consumption of meat, but it's mostly about the house."

You're right. The Big House is a Big Problem. And everything big is a
big problem.

And bicycles are a big part of the solution...

IN OTHER WORDS, GOD IS TOO DAMN BIG AND IT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM TOO!

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by George Conklin

Post by Tim McNamara

Post by George Conklin
...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
True, Europe isn't perfect either.

One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
the SUV to impress the neighbors...

True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
beautiful, happy, etc.

I'm all for labeling cigarettes and American TV shows with the same
message: "THIS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH AND OTHERS, STUPID!"

Post by Tadej Brezina
Ad impress the neighbours.
I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
neighbour with the same just in blue?

Well, it's not only the color, it's also the rims, which can sometimes
can be quite flashy --and expensive...
http://www.fastcoolcars.com/images/pimpedcars1/40inch-chrome-rims.jpg
The thing is that you must stand out, even if you look cheap. ;)

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana
How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
still too many. ;)

The on-street perceived prevalence is dramatically increasing. But the
statistics say some other picture. Some low single digit percentage I do
not have at hand right now.

So long as they remain under .001% of vehicles, they shouldn't be a
problem. ;)
Tell me, how prevalent are the GATED COMMUNITIES, which I consider
another byproduct of Banana Republic (together with the SUVs). Quite
common in place like Costa Rica, and even South Florida, but out of
place in W. Europe, I hope. This is important since there are
proposals like these in the website above...

The only gated community in Austria I know of, are the streets, where
the Israeli and US Embassies are located. :-)
In our cities and towns the well off live quite normal within the city
fabric. There are of course better precincts, but everybody can walk,
drive, ride, stroll everywhere.
No urgent need to fence oneself off, as the social discrepancies aren't
that extreme.

Tadej

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tadej Brezina

...

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

 Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs."  Still are, for
that matter.

   The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city.  The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city.  The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
True, Europe isn't perfect either.

One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
the SUV to impress the neighbors...

True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
beautiful, happy, etc.

I'm all for labeling cigarettes and American TV shows with the same
message: "THIS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH AND OTHERS, STUPID!"

Post by Tadej Brezina
Ad impress the neighbours.
I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
neighbour with the same just in blue?

Well, it's not only the color, it's also the rims, which can sometimes
can be quite flashy --and expensive...
http://www.fastcoolcars.com/images/pimpedcars1/40inch-chrome-rims.jpg
The thing is that you must stand out, even if you look cheap. ;)

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana
How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
still too many. ;)

The on-street perceived prevalence is dramatically increasing. But the
statistics say some other picture. Some low single digit percentage I do
not have at hand right now.

So long as they remain under .001% of vehicles, they shouldn't be a
problem. ;)
Tell me, how prevalent are the GATED COMMUNITIES, which I consider
another byproduct of Banana Republic (together with the SUVs). Quite
common in place like Costa Rica, and even South Florida, but out of
place in W. Europe, I hope. This is important since there are
proposals like these in the website above...

The only gated community in Austria I know of, are the streets, where
the Israeli and US Embassies are located. :-)

It seems that only those that have something to fear get behind
gates... ;)

Post by Tadej Brezina
In our cities and towns the well off live quite normal within the city
fabric. There are of course better precincts, but everybody can walk,
drive, ride, stroll everywhere.
No urgent need to fence oneself off, as the social discrepancies aren't
that extreme.

In other places the lions are separated from the monkeys. They should
instead tame the jungle, no?

[Tim McNamara]

It's too bad than Bananaman has confused being anti-car with being
pro-bike.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tim McNamara
It's too bad than Bananaman has confused being anti-car with being
pro-bike.

I'm for anything small: EVs, scooters, bikes and roller blades.

In other words, anything alternative and smart.

[ComandanteBanana]

(You may say, "What the hell bikes have to do with God?" But if God
doesn't know left from right, it means that we have to find our own
way in the Universe --and roads)

God is expanding. Because the universe is expanding, and if God would
not expand he would relativeley get smaller, which cannot be.
So if you imagine a man, he is getting fatter and fatter.
Also there is a question if God has clothes.
If so: Does he have something to hide?
If not: What a pervert!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You are leading to very deep questions here...

Also, does God knows left from right, and right from wrong?

Notice that in the Universe there are no such dimensions as left and
right, or up and down, so God may not even know right from wrong!!!

[ComandanteBanana]

Originally Posted by DUMA
"And Left and right only have meaning if one clearly define Top and
Bottom, and only then right and left have well defined meaning and
direction.."

Well, is not the directional dichotomy that worries me, but the moral
one:

Does God know Right from Wrong?

And if so, why he backs the wrong people???

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Originally Posted by DUMA
"And Left and right only have meaning if one clearly define Top and
Bottom, and only then right and left have well defined meaning and
direction.."

I think you also have to define front and back. Otherwise, left and right
could be different depending on where you're standing.

[ComandanteBanana]

On Jun 12, 11:50 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by ComandanteBanana
Originally Posted by DUMA
"And Left and right only have meaning if one clearly define Top and
Bottom, and only then right and left have well defined meaning and
direction.."

I think you also have to define front and back.  Otherwise, left and right
could be different depending on where you're standing.

Amy, for a cyclist front is the handlebar, and back is the rack --if
any. In the universe, though, things are not so simple... ;)

(I went to the end of the universe and back --at the speed of light--
so I can affirm the following)

Originally Posted by PeterL
"I would contend that left and right exist; they can be defined and
measured; but the definition and measurement of right and wrong have
not been done, at least not that I know of."

That's because Right and Wrong exist in the MORAL DIMENSION. It's not
a physical dimention, but an ethical dimension. Usually dismissed by
Religious People so they can get away with big bad things, but still
real...

"There is a moral dimension to the universe, which is just as real as
the 4 physical dimensions, but which is currently inaccessible to
measurement or scientific analysis. The moral dimension is not merely
an arbitrary construct of the human mind, but is an inherent property
of the universe."

http://www.moraldimension.com/

And it travels at the speed of light...

[Tim McNamara]

Post by Amy Blankenship
...

Originally Posted by DUMA "And Left and right only have meaning if
one clearly define Top and Bottom, and only then right and left
have well defined meaning and direction.."

I think you also have to define front and back. Otherwise, left and
right could be different depending on where you're standing.

Most people seem to define it as "I'm right, and anyone who disagrees
with me isn't."

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tim McNamara

...

Originally Posted by DUMA "And Left and right only have meaning if
one clearly define Top and Bottom, and only then right and left
have well defined meaning and direction.."

I think you also have to define front and back.  Otherwise, left and
right could be different depending on where you're standing.

Most people seem to define it as "I'm right, and anyone who disagrees
with me isn't."

Even God is like that...

But now let's go back to the real subject... what's the subject?

Anyway...

Originally Posted by SSP
'Perhaps you should move to Disney World...I've heard the roads are
quite "friendly" there.'

Disney is one of the few places in America where you've got good
public transportation. You can even catch a ride in futuristic trains.
Try that outside. Greyhound is falling apart and trains are pre-WWII!
Or is it WWI?

In the land of makebelieve... ;)

[KingOfTheApes]

(These are the breaking news)

LA Bike Activists Take to the Freeways

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91414814


Passing cars stuck on the freeways in rush hour traffic as political
theater.

Personally, I think that's kind of cool...even if it's a bit crazy,
and illegal.

And here's a video:

...

And here's the Revolution...

Viva la Revolution! ;)

I think we should "take the lane" on multi-lane roads before we take
the freeways. They are more practical and perfectly legal. Well,
almost.

"Viva Zapata, viva Chihuahua!"

[Amy Blankenship]

I think this link might work better http://tinyurl.com/5ppp9r

Post by KingOfTheApes
(These are the breaking news)
LA Bike Activists Take to the Freeways
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91414814
Passing cars stuck on the freeways in rush hour traffic as political
theater.
Personally, I think that's kind of cool...even if it's a bit crazy,
and illegal.
http://youtu.be/VNZSe8Q8-Iw
...
And here's the Revolution...
Viva la Revolution! ;)
I think we should "take the lane" on multi-lane roads before we take
the freeways. They are more practical and perfectly legal. Well,
almost.
"Viva Zapata, viva Chihuahua!"

[ComandanteBanana]

On Jun 13, 9:49 am, "Amy Blankenship"

I think this link might work betterhttp://tinyurl.com/5ppp9r

Post by KingOfTheApes
(These are the breaking news)
LA Bike Activists Take to the Freeways
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91414814
Passing cars stuck on the freeways in rush hour traffic as political
theater.
Personally, I think that's kind of cool...even if it's a bit crazy,
and illegal.
http://youtu.be/VNZSe8Q8-Iw
...
And here's the Revolution...
Viva la Revolution! ;)
I think we should "take the lane" on multi-lane roads before we take
the freeways. They are more practical and perfectly legal. Well,
almost.
"Viva Zapata, viva Chihuahua!"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks! Initial stunt is great, but bad for long term strategy...

'The California Highway Patrol says the Crimanimalz are clearly
breaking the law, namely by failing to obey the sign at the freeway
entrance that says no bikes allowed. The violation comes with a ticket
north of $100, says Officer Heather Hoglund, a spokeswoman. More
importantly, Hoglund says, the riders are putting themselves in
danger. "The people doing this are thinking, 'I'm not going to get
hurt up there. The traffic's moving slowly,' " she says. "But you tip
over, and, I'm sorry, but you're done for."'

Being "illegal" the lion will have an excuse to eat them. Funny the
authorities are worried about their safety, but not about the safety
of Joe Bicycle who must endure all kinds of risks by just being on the
road.

This is what I wrote to them...

Hey, welcome to the revolution! Yeah, we got something going here with
high profile in the internet. Here are a few ideas..



1- TAKE THE LANE

2- WEAR T-SHIRTS (see websites below)

3- CALL IT "THE REVOLUTION" TO CATCH EVEN MORE ATTENTION.



Viva la Revolution!

I think we should "take the lane" on multi-lane roads before we take
the freeways. They are more practical and perfectly legal. Well,
almost.

"Viva Zapata, viva Chihuahua!"

WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(guess what the monkey told the lion)
http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

BIKE FOR PEACE
http://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

[ComandanteBanana]

Revolution is very good for California. Why?

Mexican flavor works great for Californian cultural mix. I've got nice
music for the revolution too. Mix of techno and nortena --banda from
northern Mexico. Let me know. Si?

Originally Posted by SSP
'You said so yourself...you admitted in another thread that you drive
a car 2 miles to your job because:

You're too afraid to ride on the road
You lack the discipline to wake up in time to walk 2 miles to work.


Riding on the beach, and riding a stationary bike because you're too
afraid to ride on the roads, do not qualify as environmental
activism...much less "revolution", ya wuss.'

...

No want to die like dog. Only chihuahua is smart, "Yo quiero bike lane
on road!"

Viva chihuahua!

[GeneralissimoApeshit]

"King of the Apes?" Private Banana, you're heading not only for a
discharge, but a trial for treason.

Kings, like Comandantes, have minons. You don't even have a Sancho
Panzal.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Jun 15, 4:25 pm, GeneralissimoApeshit

"King of the Apes?"  Private Banana, you're heading not only for a
discharge, but a trial for treason.
Kings, like Comandantes, have minons.  You don't even have a Sancho
Panzal.

I can get a bunch of apes with bananas and peanuts. The lion controls
the hyenas with juicy meat.

Did you see Lion King?

[KingOfTheApes]

Originally Posted by st0ut
"Exactly. which one of us is actully riding. and which one is only
taking crdit from the boardwalk?"


Like i said Don you are part of the problem. please stop helping us.
with frineds like you we do not need enemies.

You are beyond help. You sound like a communist bunch... sacrifice,
death and quoting Mao.

Banana Revolution is different, you know. Like "Life's a beach!" Go to
Key West to see what I mean. Just go easy with the beer, enough to
keep you upright.

Well, we use something better...

Banana Daiquiri
http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink591.html

[KingOfTheApes]

Hey, I don't feel like giving speeches here, but since I wrote it I
may as well use it, no?

"THE WORLD IS A JUNGLE; NOW LET'S TAME IT!"

The metaphor of the jungle is the perfect one for the world nowadays.
Some are the big winners, and some are the big losers. China wins so
Haiti struggles to survive. One must die so the other one lives.
That's Globalization.

And then some big countries swallow the little ones, because they are
rich in this or that resource. Pretty much like the dinosaurs would
have done with anything smaller in their path. And along with it the
resources if the little people go down the drain. Then there's no
money for healthcare or averting an environmental catastrophe.

But the Law of the Jungle is also at play on our roads. The SUVs reign
supreme while the bicycles are fair game. Everything is upside down.
The winner takes all. There's no morality. "Where's the money?" no
questions asked...

So it is that, like in the jungle, everything in the modern world is
interrelated. Haiti with China, war with poverty and environmental
degradation, and bikes with SUVs.

Well, a comprehensive solution is in order. Not until the philosophy
of the Law of the Jungle is totally discredited and abandoned, we will
be able to call the world civilized.

COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by KingOfTheApes
Hey, I don't feel like giving speeches here, but since I wrote it I
may as well use it, no?

No.

[ComandanteBanana]

He's for the revolution...

Loading Image...

"Yo quiero bike lane on road!"

Viva banana, viva burrito!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The revolution starts when you ride a bike. You think of it as a
kinder, gentler vehicle that will help keep Peace as well as save the
Environment, and make you Sexy."

[ZBicyclist]

Post by Tadej Brezina
I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
neighbour with the same just in blue?

Not a problem.

I didn't live in McMansionland, but did spend adolescence in a 1.5
story house identical except in color (or whether the door was on
the left or right) to the 21 houses next to it. My first house was
located on a block consisting of identical 3 bedroom ranch houses.

Plenty of room to compete. Hot tubs, cars, addition of deck
or patio, 3 car garage, boat, landscaping (and having your lawn done
by a service instead of by you). After a few years, some houses
will have additions put on.

[RicodJour]

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by Tadej Brezina
I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
neighbour with the same just in blue?

Not a problem.
I didn't live in McMansionland, but did spend adolescence in a 1.5
story house identical except in color (or whether the door was on
the left or right) to the 21 houses next to it. My first house was
located on a block consisting of identical 3 bedroom ranch houses.
Plenty of room to compete. Hot tubs, cars, addition of deck
or patio, 3 car garage, boat, landscaping (and having your lawn done
by a service instead of by you). After a few years, some houses
will have additions put on.

Take a drive though Levittown, NY - home of the mass produced house in
60 years ago - and you'll see very few houses that haven't been
extensively modified.

Having identical houses also allows you to compete more directly -
apples to apples and all that.

R

[KingOfTheApes]

Originally Posted by plumberroy
"I think that the weaving though and around cars doesn't help . I
think 20-100 riders double file down the shoulder, neat and orderly
passing every one in bumper to bumper traffic , maybe wearing you
would be home by now shirts,would draw a lot of attention from non
bikers. Gandhi salt marches were just we walk to the sea we make salt
and walk back if any one makes trouble let it be the athorities we are
just orderly doing our thing.
Just My opinion"
Roy

That's exactly my plan. Then handing out flyers and... bananas.

The flyers are a great success, being funny like they are. Common
people like humor (unlike some Internet people), and then they like
know EVERYTHING that's going on in the jungle.

Some people critize me (and having no other excuses) saying that I
don't practice what what I preach. But the leader of the Free World
hid after 9-11, nowhere to be found in times of crisis. Well, that's
no excuse for my own behavior.

Well, the thing is I don't tell people to go out and weave around
traffic --like stated above-- and then getting killed by "accident" --
like a dog. I'm telling people NOT to get on the road up and until we
get organized ir orderly way --like stated above.

I'm in Miami, and this about the worst, but I challenge anyone from
town to come and ride with me. I'll give them the T-shirts --for free.
It's about the revolution! We will TAKE THE LANE, which means we will
not accept the scraps from the lion where we are left to ride the
gutter.

But let's not call it the Salt March. The Banana March is a better
name!

Viva la Banana! ;)

[ComandanteBanana]

   The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city.  The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city.  The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.-

But unlike American cities, Paris and other European cities are
becoming bike friendly places...

(But perhaps all we need is some "visionary mayor" or a "public
transportation strike." I'll take note about them in the list of
things that must happen. Why things like that don't happen over here?)

Budapest looks to Paris as it launches new cycling program
May 25, 2008

BUDAPEST (AFP) — Budapest city hall is slowly embracing the idea
already grasped by some commuters: that there is a two-wheel solution
to the city's traffic problems and the resultant soaring levels of
pollution.

In Paris, it took a devoted mayor and a month-long public transport
strike to turn bicycles into an attractive option for local people.

In Budapest, the starring role has gone to Deputy Mayor Miklos Hagyo:
a corpulent figure, he is perhaps unlikely poster boy.

But sporadic strike action over several months by the Hungarian public
transport unions has helped to press home the urgency of the problem.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQ5NXT8wR0BdnAJX5rf1ezLso80w

[ComandanteBanana]

OK, going back to the subject of visionary mayor...

Originally Posted by John E
"My solution to the problem is to preserve our mid-density single
family neighborhoods (mine is built at a quite livable 6.5 units /
acre), but to redevelop our sprawling one- and two-story business
parks into three-story mixed-use nodes, with commerce (retail,
restaurants, etc.) on the bottom, office/professional in the middle,
and penthouse apartments on the top."

Nobody thought of calling the demolition squads to the suburbs, so
here is a better idea...

Public transportation shuttles bikes to the outskirts, and from there
people take off on the bike. Similar to Curitiba model, in which of a
web of roads spread out from the city center, but with accomodation
for bikes. The best bikes for that are the foldable, which can be
taken inside the bus.

Then all we need is a visionary mayor like that of Curitiba, something
hard to find around here.

Curitiba and its visionary mayor
Residents of Curitiba, Brazil, think they live in the best city in the
world, and a lot of outsiders agree. Curibita has 17 new parks, 90
miles of bike paths, trees everywhere, and traffic and garbage systems
that officials from other cities come to study. Curibita's mayor for
twelve years, Jaime Lerner, has a 92 per cent approval rating.

(many good ideas here, for mayors and non-mayors alike) !!!

http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/...hp?ideaId=2236

[c***@yahoo.com]

See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...

To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.

This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...

"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080608/NEWS/806080327

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by c***@yahoo.com
See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.
This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...
"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

At the same time?

[RicodJour]

On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by c***@yahoo.com
See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.
This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...
"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

At the same time?

What? You never heard of multitasking?

BTW, Amy, your name came up over in alt.architecture.

R

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by RicodJour
On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by c***@yahoo.com
See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.
This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...
"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

At the same time?

What? You never heard of multitasking?
BTW, Amy, your name came up over in alt.architecture.

Sorry...it slipped.

[ComandanteBanana]

On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by c***@yahoo.com
See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.
This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...
"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

At the same time?

There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.

[Amy Blankenship]

"ComandanteBanana" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:201f894b-e589-4592-92d5-***@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by c***@yahoo.com
See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.
This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...
"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

At the same time?

There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.
----------------

How do you keep your foot on the accelerator of an electric car while
pedaling a bicycle?

Just wondering...

[ComandanteBanana]

On Jun 10, 5:35 pm, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by RicodJour
On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by c***@yahoo.com
See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.
This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...
"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

At the same time?

There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.
----------------
How do you keep your foot on the accelerator of an electric car while
pedaling a bicycle?
Just wondering...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Here's the solution to the dilemma...

http://nycewheels.com/ezee-quando-electric-folding-bike.html

They are EVs and bike at the same time. ;)

[ComandanteBanana]

(Writing from Miami Beach, USA)

Originally Posted by SSP
"No offense, but the more you talk about it, the more Hellish it
sounds.

Bikes are meant to be ridden out of doors, for transport, commuting,
and recreation. Being forced to ride a stationary bike because the
roads are too dangerous for a 2 mile commute would be more than enough
for me to consider moving.

Life's too short to spend it living in Hell."


Well, life's more than a bike! ;)

It's also kayaking, in which I use a survival technique developed by
the little mammals 100 million years ago... GO OUT AT NIGHT!

And besides, we have been promised a Green Beltway or something like
that would allow us to ride all the way up to Boston! Don't know
though if it'll happen before the Mars colonization.

[Bill Sornson]

There's a republic near America {snip}
... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.

You misspelled "wasted". 8-)

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Bill Sornson

There's a republic near America {snip}
... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.

You misspelled "wasted". 8-)

Misattributed. That wasn't me...

[Bill Sornson]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Bill Sornson

There's a republic near America {snip}
... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think
they are free down there.

You misspelled "wasted". 8-)

Misattributed. That wasn't me...

???

[ComandanteBanana]

(A war of the gods... Does it make sense? Well, I just know I don't
want to be the loser)

Originally Posted by Americo
"Whether big or small, my God can beat up your God!"

I doubt it. My god is printed on the money... ;)

And if that is not enough, it has the latest terrestrial and satellite
weaponry to decimate any other god and his people.
__________________
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" -M.L. King

[RicodJour]

Post by ComandanteBanana
There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.

They rent things for free?

R

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by RicodJour

Post by ComandanteBanana
There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.

They rent things for free?
R

No, the people are free and the things are for rent (or hire, for our
British friends), which means bring your own vehicle if you can. My
next escape down there will be with a foldable.

But people is really friendly, perhaps they are not fearful of crime,
which is a legacy of the 2004 war...

(This is a political analysis of the situation here, but I have my own
proposal... that Miami becomes the Capital of the Banana Republic
established by the Republicans)

The Florida War (2004) put a definitive end to the once-powerful state
of Florida-Caribbea. It fell apart in many pieces: most island-nations
reverted to their pre-Floridian independence (Cuba, Porto Rico) or
were liberated by the colonial powers. Florida proper was divided into
three zones of occupation: the NAL-SLC occupied the Northern half of
the territory, comprising the old provinces of East Florida and West
Florida. After popular referrendum, the American Zone was
reincorporated as provinces. The South-West was occupied by Ireland,
and the South-East by the Scandinavian Realm. After the war, the SR
handed over its occupation zone to the Republic of the Two Crowns. The
European Zone is still occupied by the European powers.

...

In early 2006 the Irish-European Zone announced the fledgling
República Conchesa or Conch Republic, an island nation of the Florida
Keys. At the time of the announcement by officials, there were no
details as to the level of independence the Conch Republic would
enjoy. If judging by the Irish behavior to date, it would seem that
South Florida is destined to end up like the Holy Roman Empire.

One Proposal suggests that Tampa be the new capital, providing a clean
break from the past.

http://ib.frath.net/w/South_Florida

[CJ]

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

   Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
a useful label.

The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by CJ

Post by George Conklin

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
a useful label.
The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.

Easy, although not easy to practically realise due to people's
addictions: erase the car as basis of all design elements, rules and
regulations and put the pedestrian, bike and LRT in.

For all the narrowed vision readers her: i didn't write erase the car
from the cities, but erase it as the dominator all rules are revolving
around.

Tadej

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by George Conklin

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

Where else do WE Europeans live? Come on tell it to me over the big pond!

Tadej

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

   Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

Where else do WE Europeans live? Come on tell it to me over the big pond!

I think he means there are lot of foreigners there.

[Tim McNamara]

In article

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?

[George Conklin]

Post by Tim McNamara
In article

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?

Even in Europe when people get the chance to decompress they do so.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:54:20 -0400 someone who may be "George

Post by George Conklin
Even in Europe when people get the chance to decompress they do so.

That would be why house prices are much higher in the densely packed
central areas of places like Edinburgh, Paris and Amsterdam (to name
just a few European cities) compared to the less densely packed
areas outwith the central areas?

In these and other cities those who can afford to live in the
densely packed areas, it is the poor who are pushed to the "outer
darkness" low density areas.

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Tim McNamara
In article

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?

Even in Europe when people get the chance to decompress they do so.

bileveled bogus:
1. People do not decompress, but it is the geographically inherent
property of cities all over the world to almost all times (except for
eg. walled cities) that they, when there's no explicit physical
boundary, lose density from city level to rural level at its fringes.
3. Density is to be looked upon dually: high in neighbourhoods of the
economically weaker groups, but also high in central neighbourhoods of
wealthier groups.
Of course there are also peripheral settlements of poorer and rich elements.

Tadej

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by CJ

Post by George Conklin

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
a useful label.
The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.

Some kind of major change must occur for it to happen. McCain is
business as usual, and Obama more of the same. Still, the former is a
"liberal" and the latter a "socialist" to the American Christian
voter ... So any European leader would be a "communist"...

'HOLD MY NOSE'

Dan Yoder, the pastor of a small country church in Springfield,
Tennessee, said, "I'm going to have to hold my nose while I vote for
McCain ... but Obama's a die-hard socialist."

Obama, a senator from Illinois who would be America's first black
president, is right off the scale for many conservative evangelicals
because of his liberal voting record, his opposition to the Iraq war
and his support for abortion rights.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080610/pl_nm/usa_politics_baptists_mccain_dc

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tim McNamara
In article

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?

Urban sprawl IS American utopianism.

Maybe you are right. ;)

[ComandanteBanana]

Originally Posted by genec
'The bottom line is that people don't "live" in Europe, they live in
Spain or France or Germany, etc. and within those countries they live
in states, and within those states they live in cities or towns or
villages... just as we live within states, and cities, and within
those cities there are usually districts... the bottom line is that
we, both Europeans and us, live in small subdivided areas that can be
quite bike friendly or quite the opposite... depending on the policies
and designs of the larger governing bodies. All of Europe for instance
is not bike friendly, but the areas that are can be somewhat
replicated here... one thing that is decidedly not bike friendly are
newer developments that have high speed arterial roads branching off
into isolated gated subsections. That is a decidedly American
development that tends to also isolate neighborhoods.

Certain neighborhoods here in America have been decidedly designed
around the auto, and that sort of design often is not bike friendly.
That can be changed. And it will have to be changed before we see a
bike friendly America.'


Amen! ;)

But just a note: usually Europe is either friendly to bikes (Northern
Europe) or public transporation (Southern Europe), and some areas are
both (again, Northern Europe).

Few developments there place you in the middle of nowhere with no
means to get out, other than by SUV. That's the American way...

[Pat]

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
So, we can wait for the world to notice us and open bike facilities
for us, but before we must part with the mentality that bigger is
better (SUVs) and that the sprawl is the ultimate solution to escape
the urban jungle...
I didn't want to talk about the monkey, but he knows all about
cooperative living...
What is a TND?
The acronym TND stands for Traditional Neighborhood Development, a
comprehensive planning system that includes a variety of housing types
and land uses in a defined area. The variety of uses permits
educational facilities, civic buildings and commercial establishments
to be located within walking distance of private homes. A TND is
served by a network of paths, streets and lanes suitable for
pedestrians as well as vehicles. This provides residents the option of
walking, biking or driving to places within their neighborhood.
Present and future modes of transit are also considered during the
planning stages.
Public and private spaces have equal importance, creating a balanced
community that serves a wide range of home and business owners. The
inclusion of civic buildings and civic space -- in the form of plazas,
greens, parks and squares -- enhances community identity and value.
For more information about new urbanism, see the article Welcome to
the New Urbanism.
Hey, you can even check such neighborhoods near you and take a spin
with your bike --which I plan to do.
TND Neighborhoods by State and Country
http://tndtownpaper.com/neighborhoods.htm
WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(reason #1000: because we need to live in bike friendly places)http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

I read recently that "big oil" has been using people to infiltrate
newsgroups, blogs, and other internet-related "media" to convince
people that alternative energy is bad, unreliable, and environmentally
questionable so that we take it slow. In particular, they want to
disuade us from things like bikes and walking. They are using
marginally employed people and those of the fringes of society to do
this work.

So, ConandanteBanana, your gig is up. You've been exposed as a pawn
of the oil industry.

Your efforts to humiliate and embarass bicyclers is now shown for what
it's worth -- a feeble attempt to ridicule bicyclers with your absurd
statements and bizzare theories. You may have had a few people hold
bikers in distain because of your rantings, but now your motives are
clear, even that effect will wain because of your ties to big oil.

You are now, officially, the biggest sleeze I've ever seen. You're
disgusting.

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by Pat

Post by ComandanteBanana
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
So, we can wait for the world to notice us and open bike facilities
for us, but before we must part with the mentality that bigger is
better (SUVs) and that the sprawl is the ultimate solution to escape
the urban jungle...
I didn't want to talk about the monkey, but he knows all about
cooperative living...
What is a TND?
The acronym TND stands for Traditional Neighborhood Development, a
comprehensive planning system that includes a variety of housing types
and land uses in a defined area. The variety of uses permits
educational facilities, civic buildings and commercial establishments
to be located within walking distance of private homes. A TND is
served by a network of paths, streets and lanes suitable for
pedestrians as well as vehicles. This provides residents the option of
walking, biking or driving to places within their neighborhood.
Present and future modes of transit are also considered during the
planning stages.
Public and private spaces have equal importance, creating a balanced
community that serves a wide range of home and business owners. The
inclusion of civic buildings and civic space -- in the form of plazas,
greens, parks and squares -- enhances community identity and value.
For more information about new urbanism, see the article Welcome to
the New Urbanism.
Hey, you can even check such neighborhoods near you and take a spin
with your bike --which I plan to do.
TND Neighborhoods by State and Country
http://tndtownpaper.com/neighborhoods.htm
WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(reason #1000: because we need to live in bike friendly places)http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

I read recently that "big oil" has been using people to infiltrate
newsgroups, blogs, and other internet-related "media" to convince
people that alternative energy is bad, unreliable, and environmentally
questionable so that we take it slow.  In particular, they want to
disuade us from things like bikes and walking.  They are using
marginally employed people and those of the fringes of society to do
this work.
So, ConandanteBanana, your gig is up.  You've been exposed as a pawn
of the oil industry.
Your efforts to humiliate and embarass bicyclers is now shown for what
it's worth -- a feeble attempt to ridicule bicyclers with your absurd
statements and bizzare theories.  You may have had a few people hold
bikers in distain because of your rantings, but now your motives are
clear, even that effect will wain because of your ties to big oil.
You are now, officially, the biggest sleeze I've ever seen.  You're
disgusting.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hey Pat, you've got the lowest IQ I've seen in a long while. Well, you
are a city planner who lives in the boondocks because you hate the
city. Or so you said.

Well, you can't be #1 in the stupid rating only because we have a
president --and the people who voted for him-- who decided that
launching a war over oil was a better idea than developing alternative
transportation and bikes.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:18:19 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat
I read recently that "big oil" has been using people to infiltrate
newsgroups, blogs, and other internet-related "media" to convince
people that alternative energy is bad, unreliable, and environmentally
questionable so that we take it slow.

You mean astroturfing? Old news.

Guy

[jp1138]

Post by Pat
I read recently that "big oil" has been using people to infiltrate
newsgroups, blogs, and other internet-related "media" to convince
people that alternative energy is bad, unreliable, and environmentally
questionable so that we take it slow. In particular, they want to
disuade us from things like bikes and walking. They are using
marginally employed people and those of the fringes of society to do
this work.
So, ConandanteBanana, your gig is up. You've been exposed as a pawn
of the oil industry.
Your efforts to humiliate and embarass bicyclers is now shown for what
it's worth -- a feeble attempt to ridicule bicyclers with your absurd
statements and bizzare theories. You may have had a few people hold
bikers in distain because of your rantings, but now your motives are
clear, even that effect will wain because of your ties to big oil.
You are now, officially, the biggest sleeze I've ever seen. You're
disgusting.

Do you mind that I agree with you ? Like probably many others.

Yet, I wonder how many people read this newsgroup? Is it worth the
time, even for a trillion $ turnover company/cartel?

No doubt that there are opinion makers at work. Though here?

If they exist, they must all use the same methods -learnt at the same
course- this should help us to recognize them!

The best answer is to be more what they want us not to be: 'disgust
them harder than they try to disgust us :)'

We are enthusiastic, we should win!

Welcome aboard,

Sholly

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by jp1138

Post by Pat
I read recently that "big oil" has been using people to infiltrate
newsgroups, blogs, and other internet-related "media" to convince
people that alternative energy is bad, unreliable, and environmentally
questionable so that we take it slow.  In particular, they want to
disuade us from things like bikes and walking.  They are using
marginally employed people and those of the fringes of society to do
this work.
So, ConandanteBanana, your gig is up.  You've been exposed as a pawn
of the oil industry.
Your efforts to humiliate and embarass bicyclers is now shown for what
it's worth -- a feeble attempt to ridicule bicyclers with your absurd
statements and bizzare theories.  You may have had a few people hold
bikers in distain because of your rantings, but now your motives are
clear, even that effect will wain because of your ties to big oil.
You are now, officially, the biggest sleeze I've ever seen.  You're
disgusting.

Do you mind that I agree with you ? Like probably many others.
Yet, I wonder how many people read this newsgroup? Is it worth the
time, even for a trillion $ turnover company/cartel?
No doubt that there are opinion makers at work. Though here?
If they exist, they must all use the same methods -learnt at the same
course- this should help us to recognize them!
The best answer is to be more what they want us not to be: 'disgust
them harder than they try to disgust us :)'
We are enthusiastic, we should win!
Welcome aboard,
Sholly- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I'm considering a multimillion dollar contract by GM to promote
foldable bikes. ;)

I mean it, foldable bikes are a big part of the solution!

The world of "big and stupid" is under attack. "Small IS Better" says
the chihuahua...

http://blogs.metrowestdailynews.com/food_for_thought/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/taco_bell_chihuahua.jpg