NYC Wants Congestion Charge

Post by George Conklin
NYC is now trying to charge a car $8 to enter Manhattan from 6 AM to 6 PM.
It is $24 for trucks, so I guess they want stores stocked by bicycle boys
hauling food on subways and buses. It is a good reason to shop in the
suburbs.

Oh, George, did you see my post on this on MTR? You must pride
yourself on being rediculous. I think it shoud be $50 for cars and
light trucks. $1000 for semis. Do you know what commerical rents
are, George? I think $500 for 10 wheelers would be fair. Why should
comm veh use the streets of NYC for free? Huh George???

And end the Canal Street FREEWAY.

Again George you have no idea what you are talking about, but you
pride yourself on that also.

Now, quit that...

Don't I wish...

Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

2007-04-23 01:52:32 UTC

Oh, George, did you see my post on this on MTR? You must pride
yourself on being rediculous. I think it shoud be $50 for cars and
light trucks. $1000 for semis. Do you know what commerical rents
are, George? I think $500 for 10 wheelers would be fair. Why should
comm veh use the streets of NYC for free? Huh George???
And end the Canal Street FREEWAY.
Again George you have no idea what you are talking about, but you
pride yourself on that also.
Now, quit that...
Don't I wish...
Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

Is every city like New York? Not even close. New York is by far the
most dense city in the U.S.
As I said it is very expencive to live in the City. Maybe that lots of
people want to live their? Hmm Im not sure.
Shop in the suburbs? Why not? Just get it all done at wallmart right?
Nothing like crapin on the little guys eh?

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-23 02:15:03 UTC

On Apr 22, 9:52 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

Oh, George, did you see my post on this on MTR? You must pride
yourself on being rediculous. I think it shoud be $50 for cars and
light trucks. $1000 for semis. Do you know what commerical rents
are, George? I think $500 for 10 wheelers would be fair. Why should
comm veh use the streets of NYC for free? Huh George???
And end the Canal Street FREEWAY.
Again George you have no idea what you are talking about, but you
pride yourself on that also.
Now, quit that...
Don't I wish...
Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

Let me give you a little suggestion, slow down. It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are, but the
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others in Hudson
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

NYC is expensive. It is so because of the market, supply and demand.
The housing supply is relatively fixed, vacancy rates are low, dmeand
is high, prices (rents) go up. Costs are high and that forces prices
up.

When you think about NYC, think about the market, that is what Conk
doesn't understand. Another thing Conk does not understand is
wealth. Take a look at per capita incomes in the counties surrounding
NYC. Those are some of the walthiest counties and wealthiest towns in
the US. Also NYC has the wealthiest zip codes in the US.

And Conk thinks business in Manhattan is going to get supplied and
service its customers on bicycles because of a congestion charge.
Give me a break.

Conk you have said some stupid things, but this is right up there.

Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

Sancho Panza

2007-04-23 12:10:27 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are, but the
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others in Hudson
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big ShopRite
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is why
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North Bergen.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-23 18:29:14 UTC

You and I both know NJ really well, I just wanted to make the point
that NYC considering the whole city, is not that dense, that was all.

Take care, Randy

Sancho Panza

2007-04-24 03:03:30 UTC

You and I both know NJ really well, I just wanted to make the point
that NYC considering the whole city, is not that dense, that was all.

Well, according to a graphic that Gannett published today accompanying an
article about the growth of Jersey City, New York City (including Staten
Island, eastern Queens and all the parks) has a density of 26,848 per square
mile. Jersey City isn't really close at 16,776.

It includes a bar graph that shows that Jersey City's 2005 population of
249,290 is far below the peak of 316,700 in 1930. Even the projection for 25
years from now doesn't even come close the high-water mark.

Not many people, it seems, are expected to be living on the west side below
the heights.

George Conklin

2007-04-23 19:13:25 UTC

But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point of
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

2007-04-23 21:11:36 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is why
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North Bergen.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional? Are they forcing them to do business in New York?
No, but as my friend up their said
erlier they can make lots of money in New York. I know, it stinks but
its the law of supply and demand.
If there was more demand to do business in the suburbs then they could
charge whatever they want to.
As long as the money from these taxes goes to good works, Im not going
to argure with the ethics of their tolls.

George Conklin

2007-04-23 21:19:06 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is why
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North Bergen.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-23 22:15:17 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.

It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.

Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.

Randy

Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

2007-04-24 00:46:19 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

It cost money to live in the city because a city
needs a heck of alot more money to run itself then
any suburb or rual area Iv ever heard of. Especially New York City,
The Big apple.
The most dense *AND* large peice of land hands down in the U.S.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-24 01:01:43 UTC

On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.

Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.

Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.

Take care, Randy

Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

2007-04-24 01:59:21 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.
Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.
Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.
Take care, Randy

Yea I guess I see your point. But I dont see why George thinks that is
unconstitutional.
Its just basic economics. Very Basic.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-24 02:33:32 UTC

On Apr 23, 9:59 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.
Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.
Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.
Take care, Randy

Yea I guess I see your point. But I dont see why George thinks that is
unconstitutional.
Its just basic economics. Very Basic.

As I said before he is against anything he considers "liberal". In
this particular instance it probably related to the commerce clause.
Only congress can regulate interstate commerce. That is a huge reach,
but he does that constantly.

Take care, Randy

George Conklin

2007-04-24 10:36:52 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.
Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.
Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.
Take care, Randy

Yea I guess I see your point. But I dont see why George thinks that is
unconstitutional.
Its just basic economics. Very Basic.

That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-24 22:17:10 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are,

but the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others

in Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square

mile. More

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes

the big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,

and that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in

North

Post by Sancho Panza
Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The

whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the

name of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make

money

because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like

the old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to

use

Post by ***@yahoo.com
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.
Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.
Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.
Take care, Randy

Yea I guess I see your point. But I dont see why George thinks that is
unconstitutional.
Its just basic economics. Very Basic.

That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.

George, read this carefully, ok. It is a charge for USING THE
STREETS, not for entering the city. You could walk across the GW
Bridge and not pay a dime. Can you conceive of that, George? You
could drive into the Bronx and as long as you do not go past 96th st,
again you don't pay a dime.

Now relax, take a deep breath, and come back for a sensible, honest
discussion.

Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

2007-04-25 00:42:24 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are,

but the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others

in Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square

mile. More

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes

the big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,

and that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in

North

Post by Sancho Panza
Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The

whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the

name of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make

money

because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like

the old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to

use

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.
Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.
Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.
Take care, Randy

Yea I guess I see your point. But I dont see why George thinks that is
unconstitutional.
Its just basic economics. Very Basic.

That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.

Do you think Toll boths are unconstitutional as well?

Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

2007-04-25 01:37:07 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are,

but the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others

in Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square

mile. More

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes

the big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,

and that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in

North

Post by Sancho Panza
Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The

whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the

name of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make

money

because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like

the old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to

use

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.
Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.
Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.
Take care, Randy

Yea I guess I see your point. But I dont see why George thinks that is
unconstitutional.
Its just basic economics. Very Basic.

That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.

Do you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

George Conklin

2007-04-25 11:32:58 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are,

but the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others

in Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square

mile. More

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes

the big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,

and that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in

North

Post by Sancho Panza
Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The

whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the

name of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make

money

because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like

the old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to

use

the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie?

should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.
Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.
Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.
Take care, Randy

Yea I guess I see your point. But I dont see why George thinks that is
unconstitutional.
Its just basic economics. Very Basic.

That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.

Do you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

An entrance fee, like a fee to enter an amusement park, is what Bloomberg
wants. Are you unaware that the USA refuses to pay London's entrance fee,
called a congestion tax?

Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

2007-04-25 20:56:53 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 23, 8:46 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are,

but the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others

in Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square

mile. More

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes

the big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,

and that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in

North

Post by Sancho Panza
Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The

whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the

name of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make

money

because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like

the old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to

use

Sorry, sir, neither one of those is true. The one that is true is
that it is the largest city in the US in population. It is a farily
large city in terms of area, but it is far from the largest.
Jacksonville, FL is the largest in area.
Now the point I think you should be making is, due to its wealth, it
is the number one market in the US. The wealth in NYC, esp Manhattan
is incredible.
Please listen to what I am saying. Everything is related to the
market, supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is
relatively constant, price goes up. Please rememeber that.
Take care, Randy

Yea I guess I see your point. But I dont see why George thinks that is
unconstitutional.
Its just basic economics. Very Basic.

That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.

Are you agaisnt tollbooths as well?

George Conklin

2007-04-24 10:36:07 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

2007-04-25 00:13:03 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101

That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.

So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

Pat

2007-04-26 16:18:50 UTC

On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

This is funamentally different than a toll booth. A toll booth
charges you if you use a roadway. This is charging you so that people
WON'T use a roadway.

The most interesting thing about this proposal is how one will get it
done, considering NYS laws. NYS law, and the state constituion, have
very strict laws about roads, charging, etc. In general, you can't
charge for the use of a road. There are exceptions for roads owned by
quasi-government agencies (like the bridge authority) but the tolls
are supposed to be used to pay for and maintain the bridge/road.

I am not sure how they can charge a toll on a public street.

The other problems are the unintended consequences. For example, if
the tolls go off at 11:00 PM, how will you deal with the line of cars
that starts quequing at 10:30 so they don't have to pay the toll?

How will you deal with the family from Nebraska that doesn't know
about it and goes into the city anyway -- unless you erect toll booths
to stop people. Visitors will really be discouraged. What about cabs
from the airport. It's already too expensive of a ride. What about
the racially discriminatory aspect of it -- keeping poor minorities
from drivig home while rich whites from the suburbs can afford to pay
it. It goes on and on. It's a class action suit waiting to happen.

Sancho Panza

2007-04-26 16:44:36 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others
in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes
the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,
and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up
dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

That's OK, the proponents aren't either. The devil is in the details, and
they're hazy at best. Some say it would be at "peak hours." Others say
"business hours." Some say they would check to see which vehicles are
through traffic. Others say deliveries would be exempt. It's all over the
place. Imagine interviewing thousands of drivers at the entry points about
their purpose, their destination, their overall trip. Imagine problems just
with workers like hospital/medical personnel, teachers, sanitation workers,
police officers and firefighters going to and from work.

Post by Pat
The other problems are the unintended consequences. For example, if
the tolls go off at 11:00 PM, how will you deal with the line of cars
that starts quequing at 10:30 so they don't have to pay the toll?
How will you deal with the family from Nebraska that doesn't know
about it and goes into the city anyway -- unless you erect toll booths
to stop people. Visitors will really be discouraged. What about cabs
from the airport. It's already too expensive of a ride. What about
the racially discriminatory aspect of it -- keeping poor minorities
from drivig home while rich whites from the suburbs can afford to pay
it. It goes on and on. It's a class action suit waiting to happen.

Amy Blankenship

2007-04-26 18:59:19 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and
others in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that
includes the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,
and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

That's OK, the proponents aren't either. The devil is in the details, and
they're hazy at best. Some say it would be at "peak hours." Others say
"business hours." Some say they would check to see which vehicles are
through traffic. Others say deliveries would be exempt. It's all over the
place. Imagine interviewing thousands of drivers at the entry points about
their purpose, their destination, their overall trip. Imagine problems
just with workers like hospital/medical personnel, teachers, sanitation
workers, police officers and firefighters going to and from work.

This kind of a system is already in place in several cities around the
world. How are they handling it?

Pat

2007-04-27 04:14:08 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and others
in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes
the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,
and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make
money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

Have E-ZPass, will travel.

Sancho Panza

2007-04-28 04:49:31 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and
others
in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that
includes
the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of
hand,
and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street
in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities
could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make
money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept,
like
the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll
to
use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie?
It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

Have E-ZPass, will travel.

Sure, at a cost of, say, $200 a month. City workers will sure love that,
along with all their other expenses. As the wealthy can afford Manhattan,
let them do the dirty crap, too.

george conklin

2007-04-28 11:16:30 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and
others
in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one
square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that
includes
the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of
hand,
and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street
in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities
could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars.
The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in
the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make
money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept,
like
the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll
to
use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie?
It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

Have E-ZPass, will travel.

Sure, at a cost of, say, $200 a month. City workers will sure love that,
along with all their other expenses. As the wealthy can afford Manhattan,
let them do the dirty crap, too.

The goal of the subway system was to allow low-paid workers easy access to
Manhattan so they could leave to "cheap" Brooklyn at night.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-30 01:13:57 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by Sancho Panza
in

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and
others
in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one
square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that
includes
the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of
hand,
and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street
in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities
could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars.
The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in
the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to
make
money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept,
like
the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all
ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll
to
use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come
westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie?
It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

Have E-ZPass, will travel.

Sure, at a cost of, say, $200 a month. City workers will sure love that,
along with all their other expenses. As the wealthy can afford Manhattan,
let them do the dirty crap, too.

The goal of the subway system was to allow low-paid workers easy access to
Manhattan so they could leave to "cheap" Brooklyn at night.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I AM IN A STATE OF SHOCK, BORDERING ON APOPOLEXY. CONK GOT SOMETHING
RIGHT FOR A CHANGE!!!!! The only way those skyscrapers could allow
those thousands and thousands of workers to move in and around
Manhattan was a subway system.

Now we have to do something about congestion in and around Manhattan.
Crosstown speeds are below walking.
There has to be something done that cuts the demand for entry into
Manhattan.

If you have to be there for business, commercial purposes, you are
going to have to pay, just like any other business. No business gets
any kind of sapce for nothing, so why should commercial vehicles get
street space for free. And please don't give me any rhetoric about,
they pay taxes. Yes they pay taxes, but not nearly enough.

Gridlock Sam www.gridlocksam.com has a good prop to eliminate the
tolls on the bridges in the outer boros, and institute a heavy toll,
based on time of day for entering Manhattan below 96th st.

I agree with his prop with one exception. I think the toll for semi
trucks should be $1000. That way only trucks that absolutely have
to be in Manhattan would be there, otherwise they could use the FREE
Triboro through the Bronx, or the FREE Verrazano.

Of course the businesses that are receiving the deliveries would have
to pay, but I think the resulting congestion free streets would be a
great benefit. The thing that slows down deliveries is that
congestion. You can spend 20-30 mins just trying to get around a
block. And that driver is probably making $25+ an hour.

Think about it Conkie.

Take care, Randy

Sancho Panza

2007-04-30 13:00:41 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

wrote in

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its
neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and
others
in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one
square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that
includes
the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of
hand,
and

that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the
street in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities
could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars.
The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in
the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to
make
money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept,
like
the

old

octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a
toll to
use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie?
It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

Have E-ZPass, will travel.

Sure, at a cost of, say, $200 a month. City workers will sure love that,
along with all their other expenses. As the wealthy can afford Manhattan,
let them do the dirty crap, too.

The goal of the subway system was to allow low-paid workers easy access to
Manhattan so they could leave to "cheap" Brooklyn at night.

Except that, despite Koch and Dinkins's efforts, the proportion of city
workers and similar employees who live far outside the city has drastically
increased, especially in the last 30 years. Even to the point that they no
longer consider places like Staten Island or, ahem, Yonkers, refuges.

George Conklin

2007-05-01 12:08:38 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 24, 5:36 am, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

wrote in

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its
neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and
others
in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one
square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that
includes
the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of
hand,
and

that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the
street in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities
could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars.
The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in
the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to
make
money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept,
like
the

old

octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all
ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a
toll to
use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come
westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie?
It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up
dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

problems

Post by Sancho Panza
just
with workers like hospital/medical personnel, teachers, sanitation workers,
police officers and firefighters going to and from work.

Have E-ZPass, will travel.

Sure, at a cost of, say, $200 a month. City workers will sure love that,
along with all their other expenses. As the wealthy can afford Manhattan,
let them do the dirty crap, too.

The goal of the subway system was to allow low-paid workers easy access to
Manhattan so they could leave to "cheap" Brooklyn at night.

At one time city workers had to live in the city by law. Of course, this
meant that many of them shared the same address.....!!!

george conklin

2007-04-27 11:08:18 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and
others in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that
includes the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,
and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

That's OK, the proponents aren't either. The devil is in the details, and
they're hazy at best. Some say it would be at "peak hours." Others say
"business hours." Some say they would check to see which vehicles are
through traffic. Others say deliveries would be exempt. It's all over the
place. Imagine interviewing thousands of drivers at the entry points about
their purpose, their destination, their overall trip. Imagine problems
just with workers like hospital/medical personnel, teachers, sanitation
workers, police officers and firefighters going to and from work.

The answer is to move away from and avoid cities which have congestion
charges. Basically they don't want people to live there. Just like Oregon
wanted people to visit but not move there, NYC and London want people to
visit but to move somewhere else. Congestion charges are anti-people.

Pat

2007-04-27 13:26:47 UTC

Post by Pat
On Apr 24, 8:13 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

On Apr 23, 5:19 pm, "George Conklin"

On Apr 23, 2:13 pm, "George Conklin"

Post by ***@yahoo.com
It is far from the
most dense city in the US. Some of its neighborhoods
are, but

the

Post by ***@yahoo.com
city as a whole, no. Jersey City, Union City, and
others in

Hudson

Post by ***@yahoo.com
County, NJ are much more dense, with almost no open
space.

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square
mile.

Post by Sancho Panza
important, when the sprawling shopping center that
includes the

big

Post by Sancho Panza
ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand,
and

that is

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in
North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities
could

charge and

Post by Sancho Panza
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The
whole

point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the
name

of free

Post by Sancho Panza
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make
money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like
the

old

Post by Sancho Panza
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

Oh, really Georgie, this I have to hear...proceed...I am all ears.
It is a charge to use NYC's streets. Just like there is a toll to use
the Hudson River Crossings.
Why ahould trucks and commercial vehicles be able to come westbound
over the manhattan Br and Canal Street for FREE? Why Georgie? It
should be $1000 for semis to do it, otherwise they can use the
Verrazano and pay the toll there.
Randy

As density goes up, the public and private costs also go up dramatically.

Very good, you've passed economics 101
That is what medieval prince thought when they put octroi taxes on at
the
edge of the cities. It is banned in our constitution.
So you think toll booths are unconstitutional as well?

That's OK, the proponents aren't either. The devil is in the details, and
they're hazy at best. Some say it would be at "peak hours." Others say
"business hours." Some say they would check to see which vehicles are
through traffic. Others say deliveries would be exempt. It's all over the
place. Imagine interviewing thousands of drivers at the entry points about
their purpose, their destination, their overall trip. Imagine problems
just with workers like hospital/medical personnel, teachers, sanitation
workers, police officers and firefighters going to and from work.

No. No. No. Keep all of the people in the city !!! I've dealt with
too many city slickers who come out to the sticks. It's better to
leave them on their home "turf" and well away from folks like me.

Clark F Morris

2007-04-27 15:53:57 UTC

much snipped

No. No. No. Keep all of the people in the city !!! I've dealt with
too many city slickers who come out to the sticks. It's better to
leave them on their home "turf" and well away from folks like me.

As an inner suburban person (Evanston, IL, East Orange, NJ and
Bloomfield, NJ) now living on a large piece of property in rural Nova
Scotia 8 kilometers from the town of 1,000, why should I be kept away
from here? Of course this area is interesting in that up the road 25
kilometers is a town of 500 with a theatre that has Symphony, Nova
Scotia, various touring musical groups, various touring dramas and a
thriving artistic community. I also do expect the pungent smell of
manure in the spring, especially since my not wealthy neighbors have
horses.

2007-04-28 01:23:14 UTC

Post by Clark F Morris

much snipped

No. No. No. Keep all of the people in the city !!! I've dealt with
too many city slickers who come out to the sticks. It's better to
leave them on their home "turf" and well away from folks like me.

Not you personally, but in general ...

People moving from urban/suburban areas changed both Vermont and (later)
New Hampshire to the point where they bear little to no resemblance to
what they were. (Not for the better.)

Out west it's called Californication.

drydem

2007-04-25 11:09:56 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is

why

Post by Sancho Panza
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North

Bergen.

Post by Sancho Panza
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point

Post by Sancho Panza
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

So your basically saying that what New York is doing to make money
because of the high demand
is unconstitutional?

Erecting barriers to entering a city is a medieval concept, like the old
octroi tax. It also is unconsitituional.

As much as I don't like toll roads personally,
a toll road charge[1] is constitutional (in the USA)
and is not an octroi (tax) [2].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_road

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octroi

octroi = municipal/local tax levied on the importation or
exportation of an article/item for local sale, e.g. a bottle of beer.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-26 01:59:45 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is why
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North Bergen.

George, I was wrong about the density of NYC, and you are wrong about
everything else. There is no provision against taxing commuters,
taxing commercial vehicles, and you know it.

The use of streets is not free as I have been telling you, why
shouldn't cities collect on this?

You insist that a city provides a street for you to use, why should
you not pay for it?

Ans you know you are lying when you insist that NYC is going to charge
a tax for entering the city. You can walk over the GWB or come in
from the Bronx and not pay a dime.

It is a fee for using the streets of Manhattan, that is all it is, and
you know it.

Now for the umpteenth time quit your damn lying.

Randy

george conklin

2007-04-26 11:27:55 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is why
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North Bergen.

We already pay for streets. You seem to think that streets were
invented for cars.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-05-03 19:51:39 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is why
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North Bergen.

Why not George, Delaware does it. And you know full well that fuel
taxes don't raise nearly enough. It is just another way to raise
money for transportation. Why is Delaware's toll booth not
unconstitutional? Why has the courts not ordered its removal? Maybe
because the courts don't want to rock the boat.

Take care, Randy

Sancho Panza

2007-05-04 05:05:06 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that is why
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North Bergen.

Or maybe because it has the same position as the Maryland, Jersey, New York,
etc. tolls. For a far more egregious example, see the teeny Virignia toll
road connecting Norfolk to North Carolina. That is much more like an
entrance fee.

George Conklin

2007-05-04 10:27:47 UTC

To be fair, one should not that Union City is one square mile. More
important, when the sprawling shopping center that includes the big

ShopRite

Post by Sancho Panza
wanted to build there, Union City rejected it out of hand, and that

Post by Sancho Panza
why
the shopping center thrives virtually across the street in North Bergen.

The best goal is to avoid such places. The problem with old downtowns is
that people already are very good at doing just that.

Stephen Sprunk

2007-05-31 21:41:55 UTC

Post by George Conklin
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could
charge and entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars.
The whole point of the constitution was to prevent such tolls
and taxes in the name of free trade among the states. Now all
that can be reversed.

Why not George, Delaware does it. And you know full well that
fuel taxes don't raise nearly enough. It is just another way to raise
money for transportation. Why is Delaware's toll booth not
unconstitutional? Why has the courts not ordered its removal?
Maybe because the courts don't want to rock the boat.

No, it's because it's not a fee for entering the state -- it's a fee for
using the road/bridge, which just happens to cross a state line. It's legal
/ constitutional for the same reason an intrastate toll road/bridge is. The
govt is not _obligated_ to provide you a convenient, free means to travel
within or between states, and if they do provide a convenient means it
doesn't have to be free.

OTOH, if they charged a fee for walking or swimming or riding a horse over
the state line on private property, that'd be unconstitutional, AFAICT.
National borders are an entirely different matter.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

o***@hotmail.com

2007-05-31 23:09:37 UTC

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Why not George, Delaware does it. And you know full well that
fuel taxes don't raise nearly enough. It is just another way to raise
money for transportation. Why is Delaware's toll booth not
unconstitutional? Why has the courts not ordered its removal?
Maybe because the courts don't want to rock the boat.

If the reason for the toll is supposedly construction (bonds), why do
those tolls continue for decades long after the bonds have been
redeemed?

Post by Stephen Sprunk
The
govt is not _obligated_ to provide you a convenient, free means to travel
within or between states, and if they do provide a convenient means it
doesn't have to be free.
OTOH, if they charged a fee for walking or swimming or riding a horse over
the state line on private property, that'd be unconstitutional, AFAICT.
National borders are an entirely different matter.
S
--
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Stephen Sprunk

2007-06-01 09:19:20 UTC

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by Stephen Sprunk
No, it's because it's not a fee for entering the state -- it's a fee
for using the road/bridge, which just happens to cross a state
line. It's legal / constitutional for the same reason an intrastate
toll road/bridge is.

If the reason for the toll is supposedly construction (bonds), why do
those tolls continue for decades long after the bonds have been
redeemed?

That depends on the laws of the state where the bonds were issued. Here, a
toll road/bridge agency is allowed to collect tolls indefinitely, but all
revenues must be used for either paying off bonds or building new
roads/bridges. As a result, we have a number of new toll roads that were
paid off before construction was finished, because the agency that built
them used revenues from a prior road/bridge that was already paid off. This
creates an interestingly vicious cycle.

Other states, though, may have entirely different laws any may allow toll
revenues to funnel into the state general budget or other accounts. (For
instance, it's claimed that NYC toll bridge revenues pay for transit; I have
no clue whether or not that's correct, since I've never bothered verifying
it. It'd be legal/constitutional for NY state law to allow that; in my
state, trying to do that would be illegal, but OTOH we have an explicit
sales tax to fund transit.)

S

o***@hotmail.com

2007-06-01 22:06:28 UTC

Post by Stephen Sprunk
it's claimed that NYC toll bridge revenues pay for transit; I have
no clue whether or not that's correct, since I've never bothered verifying
it. It'd be legal/constitutional for NY state law to allow that; in my
state, trying to do that would be illegal, but OTOH we have an explicit
sales tax to fund transit.)

It's not claimed. It's longstanding easily verfiable fact that has
often had to be cited here. And more important even than the law, bond
cnvenants had to broken. But New York is used to breaking its word in
many spheres, especially when it comes to finances and bonds. Witness
the Municipal Assistance Corporation and Donna Shalalah's race to
avert a bankruptcy shutdown.

george conklin

2007-06-02 01:39:40 UTC

Post by o***@hotmail.com

A congenstion charge is just another tax as far as NYC is concerned.
Your best bet? Don't go there.

Enough Already

2007-06-08 04:09:54 UTC

Post by George Conklin
But just think. In the name of environment, all cities could charge and
entrance fee or toll and get billions of tax dollars. The whole point of
the constitution was to prevent such tolls and taxes in the name of free
trade among the states. Now all that can be reversed.

Priority check: "The Environment" allows The Economy to exist. The
latter can't be more important than the former.

Nature knows nothing of taxation and property rights; only consumption
and depletion, which dumb economists chalk up as GDP either way.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.

Pat

2007-04-23 03:30:21 UTC

On Apr 22, 9:52 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

Oh, George, did you see my post on this on MTR? You must pride
yourself on being rediculous. I think it shoud be $50 for cars and
light trucks. $1000 for semis. Do you know what commerical rents
are, George? I think $500 for 10 wheelers would be fair. Why should
comm veh use the streets of NYC for free? Huh George???
And end the Canal Street FREEWAY.
Again George you have no idea what you are talking about, but you
pride yourself on that also.
Now, quit that...
Don't I wish...
Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

A couple of weeks ago Walmart announce that they will not go to NYC.
To many problems. Too bad for the people who the store would serve
and employ.

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]
Nothing like crapin on the little guys eh?

George Conklin

2007-04-23 09:42:48 UTC

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 22, 9:52 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

Oh, George, did you see my post on this on MTR? You must pride
yourself on being rediculous. I think it shoud be $50 for cars and
light trucks. $1000 for semis. Do you know what commerical rents
are, George? I think $500 for 10 wheelers would be fair. Why should
comm veh use the streets of NYC for free? Huh George???
And end the Canal Street FREEWAY.
Again George you have no idea what you are talking about, but you
pride yourself on that also.
Now, quit that...
Don't I wish...
Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

A couple of weeks ago Walmart announce that they will not go to NYC.
To many problems. Too bad for the people who the store would serve
and employ.

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]
Nothing like crapin on the little guys eh?

NYC uses the term environment to protect its horribly high prices and
local merchants who rip off the public.

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-23 18:26:24 UTC

Post by George Conklin

Post by ***@yahoo.com
On Apr 22, 9:52 pm, "Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]"

Post by George Conklin
NYC is now trying to charge a car $8 to enter Manhattan from 6 AM to

6 PM.

Post by George Conklin
It is $24 for trucks, so I guess they want stores stocked by bicycle

boys

Post by George Conklin
hauling food on subways and buses. It is a good reason to shop in

the

Post by George Conklin
suburbs.

Oh, George, did you see my post on this on MTR? You must pride
yourself on being rediculous. I think it shoud be $50 for cars and
light trucks. $1000 for semis. Do you know what commerical rents
are, George? I think $500 for 10 wheelers would be fair. Why should
comm veh use the streets of NYC for free? Huh George???
And end the Canal Street FREEWAY.
Again George you have no idea what you are talking about, but you
pride yourself on that also.
Now, quit that...
Don't I wish...
Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

A couple of weeks ago Walmart announce that they will not go to NYC.
To many problems. Too bad for the people who the store would serve
and employ.

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]
Nothing like crapin on the little guys eh?

NYC uses the term environment to protect its horribly high prices and
local merchants who rip off the public.

Again you are being rediculous. Do you know ANYTHING??? How do you
teach??? Maybe it is the market. As someone else mentioned to you,
Target is there, K mart is there, W-M won't go there because they
cannot get their way. They are very demanding, and if you don't meet
there demands, well they take their marbles and go away.

The costs to do business in Manhattan are every high. Millions of
businesses do it, you know why Georgie? BECAUSE THEY MAKE A LOT OF
MONEY. Have you ever been to Penn Station? Do you know what those
businesses are paying for rent. But they do it month after month,
after month. BECAUSE THEY MAKE A LOT OF MONEY.

But W-M demands a low cost environment, they demand everything cheap.
Well in Manhattan and NYC that does not work.

Now Georgie, I notice you are posting, but not responding. Come on
Georgie, respond, I am dying to hear your responses. Manhattan
congestion and this, come on Georgie, lets hear it.

Take care, Randy in S dade, FL

pigsty1953@yahoo.com

2007-04-23 02:17:50 UTC

Oh, George, did you see my post on this on MTR? You must pride
yourself on being rediculous. I think it shoud be $50 for cars and
light trucks. $1000 for semis. Do you know what commerical rents
are, George? I think $500 for 10 wheelers would be fair. Why should
comm veh use the streets of NYC for free? Huh George???
And end the Canal Street FREEWAY.
Again George you have no idea what you are talking about, but you
pride yourself on that also.
Now, quit that...
Don't I wish...
Take care, Randy in S Dade, FL

And this from the same guy that said NYC is building the 2nd ave
subway because Manhattanites don't want to walk two block to the Lex.
Oh, Conk, another stupid statement.

Enough Already

2007-06-08 03:52:45 UTC

Never suggest the _real_ solution to congestion: greater worldwide use
of contraception.

We musn't deny anyone the "right" to overcrowd the land or "create
more jobs" to sustain said overcrowding. Growth-addiction must be kept
viable because.....well, because that's the way it's been for
generations. Builders and planners don't question their meal tickets.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

When other species breed out of control we call it overpopulation.
When humans breed out of control we call it "economic growth."

George Conklin

2007-06-08 10:20:34 UTC

Never suggest the _real_ solution to congestion: greater worldwide use
of contraception.

As long as what is left crowds into smaller places, your comments are
irrelevant. Also irrelevant comment for the USA because no native-born group
reproduces itself.

Amy Blankenship

2007-06-08 17:51:26 UTC

Post by George Conklin

Post by George Conklin
NYC is now trying to charge a car $8 to enter Manhattan from 6 AM to 6

PM.

Post by George Conklin
It is $24 for trucks, so I guess they want stores stocked by bicycle

boys

Post by George Conklin
hauling food on subways and buses. It is a good reason to shop in the
suburbs.

Never suggest the _real_ solution to congestion: greater worldwide use
of contraception.

As long as what is left crowds into smaller places, your comments are
irrelevant. Also irrelevant comment for the USA because no native-born group
reproduces itself.

There's only the one...

Enough Already

2007-06-08 04:38:20 UTC