Riding at night: a strategy for survival?

[ComandanteBanana]

Nothing new about it: The little furry mammals developed that strategy
to survive among the dinosaurs (which is why we are here)...

Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights (DUI drivers and SUV drivers chatting on the cell
phone should be able to see him). And his bike cost him 2 grands
(important in this hierarchal jungle where you are what you drive), so
I guess he better find a use for it. The other day he told me he
didn't have the nerve anymore to ride in traffic (he ain't no chicken,
he's a veteran), which leads to this daring survival strategy.
Actually, I do the same with my canoe, where the motorboats put me at
the bottom of the food chain in the day time.

Well, our dinosaurs (SUVs and motorboats) make us get smarter and get
nocturnal. And I can only hope Darwin was right: "It is not the
strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but
the one most responsive to change."

NOTE: I told my neighbor to knock on my door. Just in case I'm
sleepless...

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

[rms]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Well, our dinosaurs (SUVs and motorboats) make us get smarter and get
nocturnal.

Take heart: mammals emerged into the sunlight after a worldwide
catastrophe. That catastrophe is occurring right now: slow in man-years
but an eyeblink in geologic time.

In any case, pay close attention to nighttime lighting. Both distance
viewing and depth perception are greatly reduced with cheaper
headlamp/bikelights. $2-300 for a quality high-wattage bikelight system I
don't think would be out of line if you are serious about night-riding,
especially on a fast roadbike.

rms

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by rms
In any case, pay close attention to nighttime lighting. Both distance
viewing and depth perception are greatly reduced with cheaper
headlamp/bikelights. $2-300 for a quality high-wattage bikelight system I
don't think would be out of line if you are serious about night-riding,
especially on a fast roadbike.

Or even a moderate-speed utility bike! Lighting systems costing $200
to $300 have always been the rage (or at least, for the past 75 years)
in places like northern Europe, where people ride bikes every day for
transportation.

No German housewife, for example, would ever think of going out after
sunset without a 20 pound rechargeable battery and a headlamp as
bright as an aircraft landing light. Ditto for the elderly ladies,
young children and businessmen I saw tootling around Ireland, Austria,
Italy and Britain.

And those people (who have used bikes every day, all their lives),
obviously don't know _nearly_ as much about this as the plump
Americans doing occasional "training rides" on delicate road racing
bikes! Americans know lights have to be much, much brighter than
that! TWO aircraft landing lights are not unreasonable! After all,
if it's bright enough for a 150 mph motorcycle, it's obviously not
quite bright enough for a 15 mph bicycle!

Is that how you meant to say it?

- Frank Krygowski

[DennisTheBald]

get yer light from the auto parts store.
$20 will buy you a pair of halogen running lights. I think 36W is
enough and it uses a much lighter battery than a 55W.
don't try to use a motorcycle battery, make sure it's a "deep cycle",
and that you've got the amps so that you only discharge it about 60%
on your normal day to day route

[SMS]

Post by rms

Post by ComandanteBanana
Well, our dinosaurs (SUVs and motorboats) make us get smarter and get
nocturnal.

Take heart: mammals emerged into the sunlight after a worldwide
catastrophe. That catastrophe is occurring right now: slow in man-years
but an eyeblink in geologic time.
In any case, pay close attention to nighttime lighting. Both distance
viewing and depth perception are greatly reduced with cheaper
headlamp/bikelights. $2-300 for a quality high-wattage bikelight system I
don't think would be out of line if you are serious about night-riding,
especially on a fast roadbike.

I wouldn't base the quality on the price. You can spend $200-300 and end
up with low-power lights that aren't suitable for a lot of types of
night riding, and you can spend $60-100 and get something that works
very well.

The short version is a Cree 3W emitter flashlight and a high power LED
tail light that has some side pointing LEDs as well as rear pointing ones.

Just to nitpick, it's old-school to talk about "wattage."

[Chris Smith]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Nothing new about it: The little furry mammals developed that strategy
to survive among the dinosaurs (which is why we are here)...

Riding at Night is a most excellent pastime. I'm doing a 400km Audax
this very weekend that, judging by last years timing, will mean I'm
riding from dusk (Saturday) to dawn (Sunday).

When it's moony, and it's very late - I may ride a few short stretches
without lights (in the country).

I have good lights - good enough to allow me to ride downhill at daytime
speeds with full confidence. Of course, I may be asleep by then...

Chris

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Nothing new about it: The little furry mammals developed that strategy
to survive among the dinosaurs (which is why we are here)...
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights (DUI drivers and SUV drivers chatting on the cell

He could get a dynamo hub and some lights. The best dynamo
hub should be SON from Schmidt, but it's rather expensive.
The front and rear light could be from Busch + Muller, but
schmidt has a real nice LED light comming real soon now(tm).
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp
http://www.bumm.de/index-e.html
http://www.nabendynamo.de/english/index.html
JonB

All those lights are nice so you can see, but to be seen all you need
is that blinking vest. I guess.

[Jens Müller]

Post by ComandanteBanana
All those lights are nice so you can see, but to be seen all you need
is that blinking vest. I guess.

Fortunately, that blinking bullshit is illegal, at least here.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
All those lights are nice so you can see, but to be seen all you need
is that blinking vest. I guess.

Fortunately, that blinking bullshit is illegal, at least here.

Where's that, Germany? What is required there?

[Jens Müller]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
All those lights are nice so you can see, but to be seen all you need
is that blinking vest. I guess.

Fortunately, that blinking bullshit is illegal, at least here.

Where's that, Germany? What is required there?

A normal, permanently shining light (red on the back, white on the front).

[Jens Müller]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK? I don't think any solid
light will be strong enough to be seen by drivers who simply aren't
looking for bikes at that time... if they are paying any attention at
all.

I was told the same thing about having blinking lights on the canoe,
which I fixed.

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK? I don't think any solid
light will be strong enough to be seen by drivers who simply aren't
looking for bikes at that time... if they are paying any attention at
all.

If two solid lights are enough to mark every four-wheeled vehicle
smaller than a lorry or bus (assuming they have additional ones on the
upper corners of their backside-silhouette) why then is one not
sufficient to mark a two-wheeler?

Tadej

[Pat]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK? I don't think any solid
light will be strong enough to be seen by drivers who simply aren't
looking for bikes at that time... if they are paying any attention at
all.
I was told the same thing about having blinking lights on the canoe,
which I fixed.

3M makes some pretty spectacular reflective tape that you can use for
all sorts of situations. For example, I have a black helmet. I put a
strip of the black reflective tape (which reflects white) on the back
of the helmet. During the daytime you can't see it (it just looks
like a piece of electrical tape) but it is BRIGHT during the night.
Anything you can do to increase your visible profile is helpful.

[Richard]

Post by Pat

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And
he ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest
with blinking lights

...SNIP...

Post by Pat

Post by ComandanteBanana
I don't think any solid
light will be strong enough to be seen by drivers who simply aren't
looking for bikes at that time... if they are paying any attention at
all.

...SNIP...

Post by Pat
Anything you can do to increase your visible profile is helpful.

Perhaps Cold Cathode Wire is the answer to being seen.

See:
http://www.vibelights.com/elwibikit.html

Now that is being visible!!!
Of course it is a bit gaudy...

Rich B.

[crabsallover]

Post by Richard

Post by Pat

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And
he ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest
with blinking lights

...SNIP...

Post by Pat

Post by ComandanteBanana
I don't think any solid
light will be strong enough to be seen by drivers who simply aren't
looking for bikes at that time... if they are paying any attention at
all.

...SNIP...

Post by Pat
Anything you can do to increase your visible profile is helpful.

Perhaps Cold Cathode Wire is the answer to being seen.
See:http://www.vibelights.com/elwibikit.html
Now that is being visible!!!
Of course it is a bit gaudy...
Rich B.

available in UK from BeSeenOnABike.com

http://tinyurl.com/69pbzf
and http://tinyurl.com/62o9lm

[crabsallover]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK? I don't think any solid
light will be strong enough to be seen by drivers who simply aren't
looking for bikes at that time... if they are paying any attention at
all.
I was told the same thing about having blinking lights on the canoe,
which I fixed.

3M makes some pretty spectacularreflectivetape that you can use for
all sorts of situations. For example, I have a black helmet. I put a
strip of the blackreflectivetape (which reflects white) on the back
of the helmet. During the daytime you can't see it (it just looks
like a piece of electrical tape) but it is BRIGHT during the night.
Anything you can do to increase your visible profile is helpful.

get it here: http://tinyurl.com/6nnp43

[Jens Müller]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?

They aren't ok.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?

They aren't ok.

Wow, I read somewhere they are not OK in Germany, but why?

[ComandanteBanana]

Hey guys, how about this little light for my Topeak rack?

http://www.topeak.com/products/detail/205

They also have this one...

http://www.topeak.com/products/detail/204

I'm reading in other forums though that some people ride with as many
lights as possible.

Isn't a basic strategy of survival to be seen, no matter what?

[DennisTheBald]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Hey guys, how about this little light for my Topeak rack?
http://www.topeak.com/products/detail/205
They also have this one...
http://www.topeak.com/products/detail/204
I'm reading in other forums though that some people ride with as many
lights as possible.
Isn't a basic strategy of survival to be seen, no matter what?

Roger, too much ain't enough... light it up with as much battery power
as yer willing to carry. But don't stop there, get a dyno hub and
light it up some more. You got to be really bright 'cause motorists
ain't.

[Jym Dyer]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller
Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It
just distracts other drivers and makes them focus
on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?

They aren't ok.

=v= You've asserted this three times now. What's the basis?
Are there actual field studies indicating that blinking lights
are a hazard? Have they actually been correlated with greater
danger for cyclists?
<_Jym_>

[_]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?

They aren't ok.

Why not?

[Tom Keats]

Post by _

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?

They aren't ok.

Why not?

There's a belief that it's more difficult for
an observer to determine the speed and vector
of a blinking, rather than steady light in the
darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights
confuse our human, pathological tendency of
Persistance Of Vision. What're those things
called? Oh, yeah: "optical illusions." I
suppose there's a wariness about blinking
lights creating optical illusions.

In the darkness of night, a blinking red light
is just a spot that conveys no information
other than its existance. On a bicycle, it
says: "I'm here." A little later it says:
"Now I'm here." A little later it says:
"Now I'm over here." Each blink is a message
to by analyzed and assimilated by the brain
of the observer[s].

A steady light says: "I'm here and I'm moving
at n rate of speed, in this direction," in
one, simple visual cue. Just like car lights.
Car's red rear running lights don't blink.

The real reason bicycle red rear lights blink
is to conserve battery juice and avoid expense.

Of all the people who'd know anything about it,
I think it would be the folks who guide planes
in onto aircraft carriers, in darkness.


cheers,
Tom

[Jens Müller]

Post by Tom Keats
The real reason bicycle red rear lights blink
is to conserve battery juice and avoid expense.

What batteries? Here bicycles need to have a dynamo (by law).

The only exception are racing bikes, "thanks" to Franz-Josef Strauß,
former Prime Minister of Bavaria.

[Tom Keats]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Tom Keats
The real reason bicycle red rear lights blink
is to conserve battery juice and avoid expense.

What batteries? Here bicycles need to have a dynamo (by law).

Here in British Columbia bicycles just need to have
lights at all, for riding at night.

I use dynamo lights. They work well for my purposes.
But I supplement them with battery lights which have
the option of flashing or steady beam.


cheers,
Tom

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Tom Keats

Post by _

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?

They aren't ok.

Why not?

There's a belief that it's more difficult for
an observer to determine the speed and vector
of a blinking, rather than steady light in the
darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights
confuse our human, pathological tendency of
Persistance Of Vision. What're those things
called? Oh, yeah: "optical illusions." I
suppose there's a wariness about blinking
lights creating optical illusions.

Or epileptic seizures.

[_]

Post by Tom Keats

Post by _

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
blinking lights

Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.

So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?

They aren't ok.

Why not?

There's a belief that it's more difficult for
an observer to determine the speed and vector
of a blinking, rather than steady light in the
darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights
confuse our human, pathological tendency of
Persistance Of Vision.

Well, more than a "belief" would be required for any effort to attempt to
persuade others to adopt the same conclusion.

Unless Muller is being merely religious.

[Tom Keats]

Post by _

Post by Tom Keats

Post by _

Post by Jens Müller

Post by ComandanteBanana
So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?

They aren't ok.

Why not?

There's a belief that it's more difficult for
an observer to determine the speed and vector
of a blinking, rather than steady light in the
darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights
confuse our human, pathological tendency of
Persistance Of Vision.

Well, more than a "belief" would be required for any effort to attempt to
persuade others to adopt the same conclusion.
Unless Muller is being merely religious.

In my own empirical observations I've found my
above statement to be true. I, however, don't
mind that blinking lights may make drivers'
brains work harder. Whatever it takes to keep
'em on their toes & alert. There's been too much
emphasis on dumbing-down driving, instead of
smartening it up. When we dumb something down,
we end up with a bunch o' dummies doing it.

Some jurisdictions in various nations & countries
only allow blinking/flashing lights on emergency
vehicles. Fair enough.

It's been suggested that blinking/flashing lights
attract drunk drivers and cause them to crash into
the vehicle with the light source, but I think
that's just a canard.

I think cyclists should be allowed to have blue
tail lights, either flashing or steady.

Anybody who can't tell the difference between a
Police/Fire/Ambulance cherry & a bicycle light
is too stoopid to be on the street.


cheers,
Tom

[Helmut Springer]

Post by _

There's a belief that it's more difficult for an observer to
determine the speed and vector of a blinking, rather than steady
light in the darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights confuse
our human, pathological tendency of Persistance Of Vision.

Well, more than a "belief" would be required for any effort to
attempt to persuade others to adopt the same conclusion.

Simply check your preferred library on the topic of visual
cognition, especially in traffic‥


Cutting follow-up to rec.bicycles.misc,