Discussion:
On the forefront of society
(too old to reply)
Pat
2007-07-13 15:51:22 UTC
Permalink
I never thought we were on the forefront of society. I thought we
were just a bunch of hicks from the middle of nowhere. But now it
rates coverage in the New York Times. Pretty funny, if you think
about it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/nyregion/13lacrosse.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin

If the link doesn't work, go to the N.Y./REGION section and find the
article on lacrosse.

My sons play on the Arrows, which is the team in blue and gold.

This is box lacrosse, not field lacrosse. Field is what the high
schools and colleges play. It is what most people think of as
lacrosse. This is box lacrosse, which is what the Indians play. It
is also what is what the professionals play. Box is a ruffer, faster,
more aggressive version of the game.

It's hard to believe the NYT is covering a sport played by such a
poor, rural, upstate bunch of kids.

Now, if we could just get our local paper to cover it ....

If anyone wants to see more pictures, my pictures are at
http://www.salamancasports.com/2007_Arrows/

=====================

Indians Widen Old Outlet in Youth Lacrosse

Flush with money from gambling profits and keen to preserve their
past, some Indian tribes in upstate New York are investing in lacrosse
teams.

By WINNIE HU
Published: July 13, 2007

ONEIDA TERRITORY, N.Y., July 9 - Tim Glass's mother tells him that he
was born with a lacrosse stick in his hand, because his ancestors
invented the game. Tim, 14, and his two younger brothers sometimes
practice their chosen sport in T-shirts that say, "It's in our blood."

Here on Oneida land, roughly 25 miles east of Syracuse, they are part
of a new generation of American Indians reasserting their heritage
through a game that was invented by their ancestors but in recent
decades has been perceived mainly as the province of prep schools and
elite colleges.

Over the past four years, the North American Minor Lacrosse
Association has grown into a league of six American Indian teams, each
with different age divisions, in upstate New York, with 1,000 players
ages 3 to 20. Some upstate Indian tribes, newly prosperous from
gambling profits and keen to preserve their past, have hired coaches
and referees, bought equipment and refurbished playing fields.

Last month, the Seneca tribe spent $97,000 on artificial turf to
upgrade a lacrosse stadium on the Allegany Reservation, about 50 miles
south of Buffalo. In Lewiston, just northeast of Niagara Falls, the
Tuscaroras are building a lacrosse park with six playing areas. The
popular contests often draw hundreds of spectators for daylong picnics
and festivities, helping unite disparate tribes in a culture often
splintered by ancient and modern rivalries.

"It's not an elite sport to us, it's a way of life," said Randi
Rourke, editor of Indian Country Today, a leading native newspaper,
who pointed to a tradition in which fathers and grandfathers present
lacrosse sticks to baby boys. "You play it the moment you can walk. We
call it a 'medicine game' because it makes people happy to watch, so
it's a kind of medicine."

Brian Patterson, president of the United South and Eastern Tribes,
which represents 24 tribes primarily east of the Mississippi River,
said the renewed interest in lacrosse was part of a broader movement
to revive Indian languages and traditions in a younger generation. He
said he had encouraged young people like his 11-year-old son,
Schuyler, who plays for the Oneida Silverhawks, to draw strength and
courage from lacrosse, as their ancestors did, to ward off modern-day
pressures and problems like drugs and alcohol.

"It's more than a game; it's truly an identity for us," Mr. Patterson
said. "With new resources available to the tribal nations, we're able
to provide a future for our people by securing our past."

Beyond the reservations, lacrosse is among the country's fastest-
growing sports. The number of players on organized teams jumped to
426,000 last year from 254,000 in 2001, according to U.S. Lacrosse, a
nonprofit group that promotes the sport.

American Indians have played lacrosse for centuries. Missionaries
documented their contests as long ago as the 1630s. Such early matches
could involve hundreds of men, and last for days in fields spanning
miles. Players often used sticks carved from trees and balls fashioned
from wood, stone or rawhide. The games were considered a rite of
passage for young men, attesting to their strength and power.

Pickup games never disappeared from reservations, where lacrosse was
often considered a gift from the Creator and games were played to heal
the sick, settle conflicts and even prepare for war. But the organized
league has increased participation and led more Indians to play in
high school.

John Jiloty, the editor in chief of Inside Lacrosse magazine,
predicted that "there's a pretty big wave of Native Americans who are
going to be entering the four-year college ranks in the next few
years, and they're going to make a big impact."

The league's six teams - their Web site is namlax.com - play what is
known as box lacrosse, a summer version believed to have begun in
Canada in the 1930s to keep hockey rinks busy in the off-season. It
takes place in an arena rather than on a larger open field, has six
athletes per side instead of 10, and generally features faster, more
intense action.

While the teams do not wear native clothing or have tribal sideline
chants, the players say they adhere to the spirit of the game played
hundreds of years ago.

For instance, the Onondaga Red Hawks and the Tonawanda Braves do not
allow girls to play, and male players on some other teams forbid women
to touch their sticks for fear such contact could cost them the
protection of the Creator during games. If a stick has been touched by
a woman or girl, some native lore says it must be put away for seven
days, and some Tonawanda players have been known to discard or give
away such sticks.

Brennan Taylor, 18, an Allegany player, says that while the game has
changed over time, he still finds comfort and meaning in its
traditions. "Hundreds of years ago, they used to play it for its
healing power," he said. "It will always be healing to me because
you're staying active, and running and improving yourself."

Before the Allegany team began in 2000, Jon Printup used to shuttle
his oldest son, Othayonih, to another reservation 45 minutes from
home, twice a week, for practices and to Canada on weekends for games.
Now, the Allegany Arrows have 121 players in seven age groups.

"Everyone just got into it on the reservation," said Othayonih, 15,
whose name means wolf in the Seneca language. "I'm just proud that I'm
native and I play."

Here in the Oneida Territory, the tribe built a lacrosse stadium in
1990, down the road from a ceremonial meeting place known as the
cookhouse. For years, the stadium was largely unused because there
were too few players, and rainstorms soaked the grass-and-dirt floor,
leaving players to scoop out water with buckets. Adult teams
sporadically formed and disbanded.

But two years after the Oneida youth team started in 2003, the stadium
floor was resurfaced in blacktop, and now it is used almost daily in
summer for recreation and competition. In the off-season, the
Silverhawks scrimmage every Monday night on an indoor basketball
court. Ronald Patterson, an Oneida coach, teaches the young players
the painstaking, yearlong process of making by hand the traditional
wood sticks their ancestors used.

The three Glass brothers - Tim, Aaron and Austin - switched to
lacrosse from Little League baseball three years ago. A short time
later, their two stepbrothers, who are of Italian descent, joined the
team, which is not limited to American Indians. One stepbrother,
Damien Ceraulo, now brags: "I'm good at lacrosse, too, so I must be
native."

During a game against Allegany on Sunday, the Oneida Silverhawks and
their parents cheered, banged on chairs and shouted at the referees
over penalty calls. Afterward, Tim Glass showed off a bruise on each
arm, left by the opposing team's sticks, to his mother, Mandy Ceraulo,
a box office supervisor at the Oneidas' Turning Stone Resort and
Casino in Verona.

"War marks," said Mrs. Ceraulo, 34, pausing to admire the bluish
circles. "They change when they have a stick in their hands. They
stand up straighter, and they get more aggressive, and then they put
the stick down, and they change back."
Michael Bulatovich
2007-07-13 16:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
I never thought we were on the forefront of society. I thought we
were just a bunch of hicks from the middle of nowhere. But now it
rates coverage in the New York Times. Pretty funny, if you think
about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/nyregion/13lacrosse.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin
If the link doesn't work, go to the N.Y./REGION section and find the
article on lacrosse.
My sons play on the Arrows, which is the team in blue and gold.
This is box lacrosse, not field lacrosse. Field is what the high
schools and colleges play. It is what most people think of as
lacrosse. This is box lacrosse, which is what the Indians play. It
is also what is what the professionals play. Box is a ruffer, faster,
more aggressive version of the game.
That's one tough game, but I've never seen box played outside a dry hockey
arena.
Pat
2007-07-13 17:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
I never thought we were on the forefront of society. I thought we
were just a bunch of hicks from the middle of nowhere. But now it
rates coverage in the New York Times. Pretty funny, if you think
about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/nyregion/13lacrosse.html?_r=1&ref=n...
If the link doesn't work, go to the N.Y./REGION section and find the
article on lacrosse.
My sons play on the Arrows, which is the team in blue and gold.
This is box lacrosse, not field lacrosse. Field is what the high
schools and colleges play. It is what most people think of as
lacrosse. This is box lacrosse, which is what the Indians play. It
is also what is what the professionals play. Box is a ruffer, faster,
more aggressive version of the game.
That's one tough game, but I've never seen box played outside a dry hockey
arena.
The outdoor boxes tend to be a bit smaller than the hockey rinks.
Plus the ball doesn't bounce as much. The problem with the ice rinks
is that the concrete is too smooth and it's slippery. Plus rinks are
really hot in the summer sun.

That game was scheduled to be outside but the Oneida box has a
blacktop-like surface. It was starting to rain so the moved it to the
Clinton Arean just outside of Utica.

My kids have artificial turf. That's pretty cool. Tonawandas have
grass. Tuscaroras have a new box but I don't know what the surface is
(I think it's grass). Onondagas have both. Newtown is indoors.
Michael Bulatovich
2007-07-13 17:45:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
I never thought we were on the forefront of society. I thought we
were just a bunch of hicks from the middle of nowhere. But now it
rates coverage in the New York Times. Pretty funny, if you think
about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/nyregion/13lacrosse.html?_r=1&ref=n...
If the link doesn't work, go to the N.Y./REGION section and find the
article on lacrosse.
My sons play on the Arrows, which is the team in blue and gold.
This is box lacrosse, not field lacrosse. Field is what the high
schools and colleges play. It is what most people think of as
lacrosse. This is box lacrosse, which is what the Indians play. It
is also what is what the professionals play. Box is a ruffer, faster,
more aggressive version of the game.
That's one tough game, but I've never seen box played outside a dry hockey
arena.
The outdoor boxes tend to be a bit smaller than the hockey rinks.
Plus the ball doesn't bounce as much. The problem with the ice rinks
is that the concrete is too smooth and it's slippery. Plus rinks are
really hot in the summer sun.
That game was scheduled to be outside but the Oneida box has a
blacktop-like surface. It was starting to rain so the moved it to the
Clinton Arean just outside of Utica.
My kids have artificial turf. That's pretty cool. Tonawandas have
grass. Tuscaroras have a new box but I don't know what the surface is
(I think it's grass). Onondagas have both. Newtown is indoors.
I've seen it on various kinds of turf IN dry hockey rinks. The grass has
got to be easier on the elbows and knees.
Pat
2007-07-13 19:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
I never thought we were on the forefront of society. I thought we
were just a bunch of hicks from the middle of nowhere. But now it
rates coverage in the New York Times. Pretty funny, if you think
about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/nyregion/13lacrosse.html?_r=1&ref=n...
If the link doesn't work, go to the N.Y./REGION section and find the
article on lacrosse.
My sons play on the Arrows, which is the team in blue and gold.
This is box lacrosse, not field lacrosse. Field is what the high
schools and colleges play. It is what most people think of as
lacrosse. This is box lacrosse, which is what the Indians play. It
is also what is what the professionals play. Box is a ruffer, faster,
more aggressive version of the game.
That's one tough game, but I've never seen box played outside a dry hockey
arena.
The outdoor boxes tend to be a bit smaller than the hockey rinks.
Plus the ball doesn't bounce as much. The problem with the ice rinks
is that the concrete is too smooth and it's slippery. Plus rinks are
really hot in the summer sun.
That game was scheduled to be outside but the Oneida box has a
blacktop-like surface. It was starting to rain so the moved it to the
Clinton Arean just outside of Utica.
My kids have artificial turf. That's pretty cool. Tonawandas have
grass. Tuscaroras have a new box but I don't know what the surface is
(I think it's grass). Onondagas have both. Newtown is indoors.
I've seen it on various kinds of turf IN dry hockey rinks. The grass has
got to be easier on the elbows and knees.
This type of turf isn't going to come up easily. They lay the turf,
then rake into it 1/2" of sand then 1/2" of ground rubber.
Michael Bulatovich
2007-07-13 20:38:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
I never thought we were on the forefront of society. I thought we
were just a bunch of hicks from the middle of nowhere. But now it
rates coverage in the New York Times. Pretty funny, if you think
about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/nyregion/13lacrosse.html?_r=1&ref=n...
If the link doesn't work, go to the N.Y./REGION section and find the
article on lacrosse.
My sons play on the Arrows, which is the team in blue and gold.
This is box lacrosse, not field lacrosse. Field is what the high
schools and colleges play. It is what most people think of as
lacrosse. This is box lacrosse, which is what the Indians play. It
is also what is what the professionals play. Box is a ruffer, faster,
more aggressive version of the game.
That's one tough game, but I've never seen box played outside a dry hockey
arena.
The outdoor boxes tend to be a bit smaller than the hockey rinks.
Plus the ball doesn't bounce as much. The problem with the ice rinks
is that the concrete is too smooth and it's slippery. Plus rinks are
really hot in the summer sun.
That game was scheduled to be outside but the Oneida box has a
blacktop-like surface. It was starting to rain so the moved it to the
Clinton Arean just outside of Utica.
My kids have artificial turf. That's pretty cool. Tonawandas have
grass. Tuscaroras have a new box but I don't know what the surface is
(I think it's grass). Onondagas have both. Newtown is indoors.
I've seen it on various kinds of turf IN dry hockey rinks. The grass has
got to be easier on the elbows and knees.
This type of turf isn't going to come up easily. They lay the turf,
then rake into it 1/2" of sand then 1/2" of ground rubber.
That's the new stuff. It looks and feels great, but I admit to having no
playing experience on it. Around here they seem to play a lot on plain old
Astroturf.
RicodJour
2007-07-13 21:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
Post by Michael Bulatovich
I've seen it on various kinds of turf IN dry hockey rinks. The grass has
got to be easier on the elbows and knees.
This type of turf isn't going to come up easily. They lay the turf,
then rake into it 1/2" of sand then 1/2" of ground rubber.
That's the new stuff. It looks and feels great, but I admit to having no
playing experience on it. Around here they seem to play a lot on plain old
Astroturf.
Which is what I thought they were talking about in that article. I
hate astroturf so much that I refuse to capitalize the word! I still
have rug burns from years ago.

R
Pat
2007-07-13 22:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by RicodJour
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
Post by Michael Bulatovich
I've seen it on various kinds of turf IN dry hockey rinks. The grass has
got to be easier on the elbows and knees.
This type of turf isn't going to come up easily. They lay the turf,
then rake into it 1/2" of sand then 1/2" of ground rubber.
That's the new stuff. It looks and feels great, but I admit to having no
playing experience on it. Around here they seem to play a lot on plain old
Astroturf.
Which is what I thought they were talking about in that article. I
hate astroturf so much that I refuse to capitalize the word! I still
have rug burns from years ago.
R
Now, this is all thousands and thousands of individual pieces of
plastic grass. You can sort of see the texture here.
http://www.salamancasports.com/2007_Arrows/pages/2007%2006%2024%20Allegany%20Arrows%20v%20Tonawanda179.htm
It is reputed that this is the same turf used in the Buffalo Bills
stadium (not that that means much).

It is so deep and cushioned that you can wear spikes on it. The guys
who play on it say you can see little black particles when the ball
bounces off of it when thrown hard.

I wonder about long-term care. Seems like you must have to vacuum it
in the spring and replace any depleted rubber, but I don't know. It
does make a sort of weird swooshing sound when they run on it or the
ball hits off of it.
Michael Bulatovich
2007-07-13 22:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by RicodJour
Post by Michael Bulatovich
Post by Pat
Post by Michael Bulatovich
I've seen it on various kinds of turf IN dry hockey rinks. The
grass
has
got to be easier on the elbows and knees.
This type of turf isn't going to come up easily. They lay the turf,
then rake into it 1/2" of sand then 1/2" of ground rubber.
That's the new stuff. It looks and feels great, but I admit to having no
playing experience on it. Around here they seem to play a lot on plain old
Astroturf.
Which is what I thought they were talking about in that article. I
hate astroturf so much that I refuse to capitalize the word!
I just said yes to the spellchecker.

Don
2007-07-13 16:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
It's hard to believe the NYT is covering a sport played by such a
poor, rural, upstate bunch of kids.
Out here in the rural community of Gnaw Bone, population 232, there is a
little establishment named the 'Gnaw Bone Tenderloin' that specializes in,
you guessed it, Tenderloin sando's.
You know, them gristly, fatty pieces of pork that are only consumable by
pounding, 2" breading then frying the shit out of them then stacking
lettuce, tomato, onion and all that on top.
Well, about 5 years ago the NYT did a write up on them by a coupla NYT
reporters that just happened to be passing by and stopped and got fuel.
After that write-up Senator Luger asked GB Tenderloin to sponsor a
Tenderloinfest for the entire senate, which they did, and have been doing so
ever since, 6 years running.
Gnaw Bone Tenderloin shut down about 4 months ago when the owner got behind
in his bills and the bank foreclosed.

Also, over at Lake Lemon where we rented a house on the lake when we first
moved here is a nasty little dive called the Porthole.
The Porthole was featured in the NYT 2 years ago for their Catfish dinner.
Yes, the catfish is supreme, and the cook is a good friend of mine, but the
dive itself is one of the worst I have ever seen.
Really, REALLY nasty.
I wouldn't take my wife in there.
In fact, I haven't been in there since before xmas.

Take the NYT articles with a grain of salt.
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