Sidewalks cause crime?

Post by William
There was a recent article in the New York Times about a suburb's
proteste to it's developers that they don't want sidewalks because
they quote "Bring in Crime". I for one think this is complete bullshit
made up from a upper class white man who wants to be isolated from any
social contact especially when he's grilling on the nice freshly cut
green front yard. Then again that is the definition of a suburb isn't
it?

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

William

2007-07-09 03:17:57 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

Research also shows that children that grew up in the suburbs have
many problems adjusting. The same study shows that affluent suburban
high schoolers not only smoke more, drink more and use more hard drugs
than typical high schoolers do -- they do so more than a comparison
group of inner-city kids. In addition, they have much higher rates of
anxiety and, in general, higher rates of depression.

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/mental-behavioral-health/depression/risk-factors/teens

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html

george conklin

2007-07-09 12:03:11 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

Research also shows that children that grew up in the suburbs have
many problems adjusting. The same study shows that affluent suburban
high schoolers not only smoke more, drink more and use more hard drugs
than typical high schoolers do -- they do so more than a comparison
group of inner-city kids. In addition, they have much higher rates of
anxiety and, in general, higher rates of depression.
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/mental-behavioral-health/depression/risk-factors/teens
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html

What you leave out is the high pressure for achievement that parents put
on children. If you want your child to work at McDonalds, then the
low-pressure parent is just the way to go. If you want to get into a good
college and move up the corporate ladder, then you need more motivation for
your children. The article states that, but you leave it out of your biased
cut and paste jobs. You seem to want to push us all into slum-level
achievements:

"So what's to be done? First and foremost, say the researchers, be aware of
the costs of overscheduled and competitive lifestyles."

You want us to have a low-achievement society.

William

2007-07-09 13:21:09 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

Research also shows that children that grew up in the suburbs have
many problems adjusting. The same study shows that affluent suburban
high schoolers not only smoke more, drink more and use more hard drugs
than typical high schoolers do -- they do so more than a comparison
group of inner-city kids. In addition, they have much higher rates of
anxiety and, in general, higher rates of depression.
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/mental-behavioral-health/d...
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html

What you leave out is the high pressure for achievement that parents put
on children. If you want your child to work at McDonalds, then the
low-pressure parent is just the way to go. If you want to get into a good
college and move up the corporate ladder, then you need more motivation for
your children. The article states that, but you leave it out of your biased
cut and paste jobs. You seem to want to push us all into slum-level
"So what's to be done? First and foremost, say the researchers, be aware of
the costs of overscheduled and competitive lifestyles."

There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

Post by george conklin
You want us to have a low-achievement society.

George, I say this not mocking you, the statement you just said
about inner city parents not being as good as suburb parents seems to
be only your opinion, nothing otherwise. My opinion is the "high
pressure" parents from suburbia just means that they want there kid to
be "happy" so they buy them
whatever they want. It's my word against yours. Although my first
reply had research proving it. So according to the laws that bind you,
you can't really touch that one. Especially since you used part of the
research I used against me in your last post.

Jack May

2007-07-09 18:41:08 UTC

Post by William
There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

Prove it. Sounds nothing like where I have lived. When I was a teenager in
the suburbs I had plenty of interesting I was doing on my own without
pressure from my parents. I did not hang out at the boring strip malls

William

2007-07-09 20:27:42 UTC

Post by William
There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

Really? Like smoking pot for example?

George Conklin

2007-07-09 21:23:18 UTC

Post by William
There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

Really? Like smoking pot for example?

Do not translate your bad habits to others.

George Conklin

2007-07-09 21:22:56 UTC

Post by William
There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

It is part of the usual slander that people outside city core have nothing
to do. It is a bald-faced lie, but then they keep saying it in place of
knowledge.

William

2007-07-09 23:02:00 UTC

Post by George Conklin

Post by William
There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

Prove it. Sounds nothing like where I have lived. When I was a teenager

Post by Jack May
the suburbs I had plenty of interesting I was doing on my own without
pressure from my parents. I did not hang out at the boring strip malls

It is part of the usual slander that people outside city core have nothing
to do. It is a bald-faced lie, but then they keep saying it in place of
knowledge.

Research say that "suburban high schoolers not only smoke more, drink
more, and use more hard drugs than typical high schoolers do-they do
so more than a comparison group of inner-city kids. In addition, they
have much higher rates of anxiety and, in general, higher rates of
depression."

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html
George, I've given researched evidence to prove my point, wheres
yours?

And to Jack, what did you do?

George Conklin

2007-07-09 21:21:59 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more

than

Post by Jack May
in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/mental-behavioral-health/d...

Post by William
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html

What you leave out is the high pressure for achievement that parents put
on children. If you want your child to work at McDonalds, then the
low-pressure parent is just the way to go. If you want to get into a good
college and move up the corporate ladder, then you need more motivation for
your children. The article states that, but you leave it out of your biased
cut and paste jobs. You seem to want to push us all into slum-level
"So what's to be done? First and foremost, say the researchers, be aware of
the costs of overscheduled and competitive lifestyles."

There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

You have no idea what pressure is on many young people to achive and get
into the highly-selective colleges. Living in NYC, I had NO time to hang
out in the streets. It was homework 24/7, except in the summer, then it was
a book report per week to be turned in the first day of class.

Post by george conklin
You want us to have a low-achievement society.

George, I say this not mocking you, the statement you just said
about inner city parents not being as good as suburb parents seems to
be only your opinion, nothing otherwise.

See above.

Amy Blankenship

2007-07-10 15:00:39 UTC

bullshit

Post by William
made up from a upper class white man who wants to be isolated from

any

Post by William
social contact especially when he's grilling on the nice freshly

cut

Post by William
green front yard. Then again that is the definition of a suburb

isn't

Post by William
it?

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more

than

Post by Jack May
in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/mental-behavioral-health/d...

Post by William
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html

What you leave out is the high pressure for achievement that parents

put

Post by george conklin
on children. If you want your child to work at McDonalds, then the
low-pressure parent is just the way to go. If you want to get into a

good

Post by george conklin
college and move up the corporate ladder, then you need more motivation

for

Post by george conklin
your children. The article states that, but you leave it out of your

biased

Post by george conklin
cut and paste jobs. You seem to want to push us all into slum-level
"So what's to be done? First and foremost, say the researchers, be
aware

Post by george conklin
the costs of overscheduled and competitive lifestyles."

There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

This is in complete conflict with your other stories of what your childhood
was like. Undergoing such pressure does not appear to have helped you too
much. I, on the other hand, had a very low pressure lifestyle, went to the
state land grant university, and am now one of the top ten in my industry.
Funny world ;-).

Pat

2007-07-10 15:49:23 UTC

On Jul 10, 11:00 am, "Amy Blankenship"

bullshit

Post by William
made up from a upper class white man who wants to be isolated from

any

Post by William
social contact especially when he's grilling on the nice freshly

cut

Post by William
green front yard. Then again that is the definition of a suburb

isn't

Post by William
it?

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more

than

Post by Jack May
in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/mental-behavioral-health/d...

Post by William
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html

What you leave out is the high pressure for achievement that parents

put

Post by george conklin
on children. If you want your child to work at McDonalds, then the
low-pressure parent is just the way to go. If you want to get into a

good

Post by george conklin
college and move up the corporate ladder, then you need more motivation

for

Post by george conklin
your children. The article states that, but you leave it out of your

biased

Post by george conklin
cut and paste jobs. You seem to want to push us all into slum-level
"So what's to be done? First and foremost, say the researchers, be
aware

Post by george conklin
the costs of overscheduled and competitive lifestyles."

There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

Notice that it's okay for George to have an opinion, but for everyone
else an opinion is just foolish emotions?

Ahhh. To be such a hypocrite.

Amy Blankenship

2007-07-10 16:09:45 UTC

Post by Pat
On Jul 10, 11:00 am, "Amy Blankenship"

bullshit

Post by William
made up from a upper class white man who wants to be isolated from

any

Post by William
social contact especially when he's grilling on the nice freshly

cut

Post by William
green front yard. Then again that is the definition of a suburb

isn't

Post by William
it?

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more

than

Post by Jack May
in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/mental-behavioral-health/d...

Post by William
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3722.html

What you leave out is the high pressure for achievement that parents

put

Post by george conklin
on children. If you want your child to work at McDonalds, then the
low-pressure parent is just the way to go. If you want to get into a

good

Post by george conklin
college and move up the corporate ladder, then you need more motivation

for

Post by george conklin
your children. The article states that, but you leave it out of your

biased

Post by george conklin
cut and paste jobs. You seem to want to push us all into slum-level
"So what's to be done? First and foremost, say the researchers, be
aware

Post by george conklin
the costs of overscheduled and competitive lifestyles."

There overscheduled because otherwise they would have nothing to do
besides go hang
out at the local strip mall.

You have no idea what pressure is on many young people to achive and get
into the highly-selective colleges. Living in NYC, I had NO time to hang
out in the streets. It was homework 24/7, except in the summer, then
it
was
a book report per week to be turned in the first day of class.

Notice that it's okay for George to have an opinion, but for everyone
else an opinion is just foolish emotions?
Ahhh. To be such a hypocrite.

George hates emotions, so the only one he has room for is that one.

Clark F Morris

2007-07-11 20:31:26 UTC

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:00:39 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"

much snipped

Just out of curiosity, what is the industry?

Amy Blankenship

2007-07-12 02:07:01 UTC

Post by Clark F Morris
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:00:39 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"

much snipped

Just out of curiosity, what is the industry?

http://www.authorware-amy.com/

george conklin

2007-07-09 11:58:16 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than
in the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

There is more social contact in the suburbs than in the city. The big lie
puts it the other way round.

Pat

2007-07-09 17:30:36 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

First off, there are some major problems with your logic. People
grill on their nice, freshly cut green BACK yards, not their nice,
freshly cut green FRONT yards. Anyone who has a nice, freshly cut
green front yard also has deed restrictions that prevent one from
grilling said yard.

Second, you grill in the kitchen. You barbecue in the nice, freshly
cut green back yard. Unless you are down south, where barbecue is a
noun, not a verb.

Finally, you think it is BS that sidewalks bring in crime and that
people want them to encourage isolation. First off, what's wrong with
isolation? Many people, when they return home, just want to throw a
dinner in the microwave and watch Wheel of Fortune. If that's what
the person wants, so be it. This is still America. Next, you way
that people want to get rid of sidewalks because it encourages
isolation and that it does not contribute to crime. Using your
reasoning, if getting rid of sidewalks leads to isolation, having
sidewalks encourages socialization. But if you have more people
walking up and down your street, that leads to more opportunities for
crime to occur. So it may actually discourage crime AND add to
isolation, which are both positive outcomes from the perspective of
the people living in the houses.

William

2007-07-09 20:34:22 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

First off, there are some major problems with your logic. People
grill on their nice, freshly cut green BACK yards, not their nice,
freshly cut green FRONT yards. Anyone who has a nice, freshly cut
green front yard also has deed restrictions that prevent one from
grilling said yard.
Second, you grill in the kitchen. You barbecue in the nice, freshly
cut green back yard. Unless you are down south, where barbecue is a
noun, not a verb.
Finally, you think it is BS that sidewalks bring in crime and that
people want them to encourage isolation. First off, what's wrong with
isolation? Many people, when they return home, just want to throw a
dinner in the microwave and watch Wheel of Fortune. If that's what
the person wants, so be it. This is still America. Next, you way
that people want to get rid of sidewalks because it encourages
isolation and that it does not contribute to crime. Using your
reasoning, if getting rid of sidewalks leads to isolation, having
sidewalks encourages socialization. But if you have more people
walking up and down your street, that leads to more opportunities for
crime to occur. So it may actually discourage crime AND add to
isolation, which are both positive outcomes from the perspective of
the people living in the houses.

I'm a Catholic and I believe that communities create peace and
Isolation
in general is not a good thing. Life is hard and you need support even
if you don't think
you do. I'm sorry thats just what I believe it's no use arguing.

George Conklin

2007-07-09 21:26:25 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

First off, there are some major problems with your logic. People
grill on their nice, freshly cut green BACK yards, not their nice,
freshly cut green FRONT yards. Anyone who has a nice, freshly cut
green front yard also has deed restrictions that prevent one from
grilling said yard.
Second, you grill in the kitchen. You barbecue in the nice, freshly
cut green back yard. Unless you are down south, where barbecue is a
noun, not a verb.
Finally, you think it is BS that sidewalks bring in crime and that
people want them to encourage isolation. First off, what's wrong with
isolation? Many people, when they return home, just want to throw a
dinner in the microwave and watch Wheel of Fortune. If that's what
the person wants, so be it. This is still America. Next, you way
that people want to get rid of sidewalks because it encourages
isolation and that it does not contribute to crime. Using your
reasoning, if getting rid of sidewalks leads to isolation, having
sidewalks encourages socialization. But if you have more people
walking up and down your street, that leads to more opportunities for
crime to occur. So it may actually discourage crime AND add to
isolation, which are both positive outcomes from the perspective of
the people living in the houses.

So are you telling me the Pope has come out against cul-de-sacs? Or againt
your inability to find something you like to do so you can blame others for
your own personal problems?

William

2007-07-09 22:53:35 UTC

bullshit

Post by William
made up from a upper class white man who wants to be isolated from

any

Post by William
social contact especially when he's grilling on the nice freshly cut
green front yard. Then again that is the definition of a suburb

isn't

Post by William
it?

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more

than in

Post by Jack May
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

First off, there are some major problems with your logic. People
grill on their nice, freshly cut green BACK yards, not their nice,
freshly cut green FRONT yards. Anyone who has a nice, freshly cut
green front yard also has deed restrictions that prevent one from
grilling said yard.
Second, you grill in the kitchen. You barbecue in the nice, freshly
cut green back yard. Unless you are down south, where barbecue is a
noun, not a verb.
Finally, you think it is BS that sidewalks bring in crime and that
people want them to encourage isolation. First off, what's wrong with
isolation? Many people, when they return home, just want to throw a
dinner in the microwave and watch Wheel of Fortune. If that's what
the person wants, so be it. This is still America. Next, you way
that people want to get rid of sidewalks because it encourages
isolation and that it does not contribute to crime. Using your
reasoning, if getting rid of sidewalks leads to isolation, having
sidewalks encourages socialization. But if you have more people
walking up and down your street, that leads to more opportunities for
crime to occur. So it may actually discourage crime AND add to
isolation, which are both positive outcomes from the perspective of
the people living in the houses.

So are you telling me the Pope has come out against cul-de-sacs? Or againt
your inability to find something you like to do so you can blame others for
your own personal problems?

I said nothing about cul-de-sacs let alone suburbs in that paragraph.
If you looked up you would see that me and Pat were talking about the
general topic of Isolation. Please, just take the time to actually
read what people write.

Pat

2007-07-10 03:19:10 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

First off, there are some major problems with your logic. People
grill on their nice, freshly cut green BACK yards, not their nice,
freshly cut green FRONT yards. Anyone who has a nice, freshly cut
green front yard also has deed restrictions that prevent one from
grilling said yard.
Second, you grill in the kitchen. You barbecue in the nice, freshly
cut green back yard. Unless you are down south, where barbecue is a
noun, not a verb.
Finally, you think it is BS that sidewalks bring in crime and that
people want them to encourage isolation. First off, what's wrong with
isolation? Many people, when they return home, just want to throw a
dinner in the microwave and watch Wheel of Fortune. If that's what
the person wants, so be it. This is still America. Next, you way
that people want to get rid of sidewalks because it encourages
isolation and that it does not contribute to crime. Using your
reasoning, if getting rid of sidewalks leads to isolation, having
sidewalks encourages socialization. But if you have more people
walking up and down your street, that leads to more opportunities for
crime to occur. So it may actually discourage crime AND add to
isolation, which are both positive outcomes from the perspective of
the people living in the houses.

I'm a Catholic and I believe that communities create peace and
Isolation
in general is not a good thing.

I don't know. There are all of the Religious who are in monasteries
and nunneries and are devoting to worship through solitude.

Plus, if the church has shipped a few priests off to isolation after
their first "problem", it would be in a different situation.

Then there the whole wandering in the desert thing. That was good.

The church responds to society through charity, social acts, some of
the rites, etc., but I don't think it discourages isolation.

Life is hard and you need support even

Post by William
if you don't think
you do. I'm sorry thats just what I believe it's no use arguing.

George Conklin

2007-07-09 21:24:17 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

First off, there are some major problems with your logic. People
grill on their nice, freshly cut green BACK yards, not their nice,
freshly cut green FRONT yards.

So what. What drivel.

Pat

2007-07-10 03:10:06 UTC

Post by George Conklin

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than

Post by Jack May
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

First off, there are some major problems with your logic. People
grill on their nice, freshly cut green BACK yards, not their nice,
freshly cut green FRONT yards.

So what. What drivel.

If you had any friends, you'd understand what a humerous aside was
during a conversation.

Amy Blankenship

2007-07-10 15:02:55 UTC

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

We always grilled in the side yard when I was a kid, though there were no
restrictions keeping us from doing it in the front yard. My husband grills
in the front yard these days. Fish doesn't barbecue well so we do in fact
grill.

Just a thought;

Amy

Pat

2007-07-10 15:51:33 UTC

On Jul 10, 11:02 am, "Amy Blankenship"

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more than in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

Tell you husband he is un-American.

Besides, it was a reference to green suburban lawns. I thought you
and the chickens were more rural.

Just out of curiosity, you don't bbq on the side yards to the
chickens do see their fate, do you?

Amy Blankenship

2007-07-10 16:11:43 UTC

Post by Pat
On Jul 10, 11:02 am, "Amy Blankenship"

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more
than
in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

Tell you husband he is un-American.

Duh. He was born in Glasgow.

Post by Pat
Besides, it was a reference to green suburban lawns. I thought you
and the chickens were more rural.

But we do cut the grass, or what passes for it. I lived in town as a kid,
even though there were goats behind the people across the street (where a 20
story condo unit is now).

Post by Pat
Just out of curiosity, you don't bbq on the side yards to the
chickens do see their fate, do you?

I don't eat chicken. Though I had a hen kill 6 chicks as they hatched last
night. So I may yet.

Pat

2007-07-10 16:36:11 UTC

On Jul 10, 12:11 pm, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Pat
On Jul 10, 11:02 am, "Amy Blankenship"

The research says there is high social contact in the suburbs, more
than
in
the cities. So it is not the definition of a suburb

Tell you husband he is un-American.

Duh. He was born in Glasgow.

How was I to know?????

But tell him to go back to Glasgow if he continues to keep bbqing in
the side yard. He could have his green-card revoked for that.

Post by Pat
Besides, it was a reference to green suburban lawns. I thought you
and the chickens were more rural.

But we do cut the grass, or what passes for it. I lived in town as a kid,
even though there were goats behind the people across the street (where a 20
story condo unit is now).

Post by Pat
Just out of curiosity, you don't bbq on the side yards to the
chickens do see their fate, do you?

I don't eat chicken. Though I had a hen kill 6 chicks as they hatched last
night. So I may yet.

2007-07-10 19:48:38 UTC

Post by Pat
Using your
reasoning, if getting rid of sidewalks leads to isolation, having
sidewalks encourages socialization. But if you have more people
walking up and down your street, that leads to more opportunities for
crime to occur. So it may actually discourage crime AND add to
isolation, which are both positive outcomes from the perspective of
the people living in the houses.

I didn't mind the idea of having a sidewalk. What I didn't like was
that the city owned it, but I had to maintain it. (People got tickets
when the sidewalk slabs had too much salt erosion or were tilted too
much.)

And in winter I was required to remove snow within 24 hours.

At least I didn't have a corner lot ...

george conklin

2007-07-09 11:57:34 UTC

The developers are right.

Pat

2007-07-09 15:25:30 UTC

The developers are right.

Again, George, not a bad post for someone with English as a second
language, but the post said "a suburb's proteste TO it's developers".
That does not mean the same thing as "proteste FROM it's developers".
There was no indication that the developers had a position in it.

Amy Blankenship

2007-07-09 15:40:16 UTC

The developers are right.

I think George was stating that in general there is nothing wrong with
sidewalks (interpretation again) ;-).

drydem

2007-07-13 14:33:43 UTC