some principles for density determination in urban planning

[aida]

i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

[george conklin]

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

You need to explain yourself better.

[aida]

Post by george conklin

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: theurbandesign(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

You need to explain yourself better.

Sorry for my bad english , that is why I couldn't explain well.

As I have told about density I meant building density(( or better I
emphasis the building height)). The building height relates the urban
design subjects such as "enclosure", but this concept doesn't have any
place in urban planning for density determination. At least here in
iran- where I live- is like this. Now what is in my mind is a street
enclosed with high buildings.that is simple subject. When buildings
with this special density shaped, then it is an act deserving
criticism for urban designers. Now my question is this , are there
some principles about building density and street scape,but not some
apart titles.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by aida

Post by george conklin

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: theurbandesign(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

You need to explain yourself better.

Sorry for my bad english , that is why I couldn't explain well.
As I have told about density I meant building density(( or better I
emphasis the building height)). The building height relates the urban
design subjects such as "enclosure", but this concept doesn't have any
place in urban planning for density determination. At least here in
iran- where I live- is like this. Now what is in my mind is a street
enclosed with high buildings.that is simple subject. When buildings
with this special density shaped, then it is an act deserving
criticism for urban designers. Now my question is this , are there
some principles about building density and street scape,but not some
apart titles.

There is a forum called Cyburbia where you might have better luck. This
forum isn't really about urban planning, despite the title.

[Pat]

On Aug 12, 11:33 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by aida

Post by george conklin

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: theurbandesign(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

You need to explain yourself better.

Sorry for my bad english , that is why I couldn't explain well.
As I have told about density I meant building density(( or better I
emphasis the building height)). The building height relates the urban
design subjects such as "enclosure", but this concept doesn't have any
place in urban planning for density determination. At least here in
iran- where I live- is like this. Now what is in my mind is a street
enclosed with high buildings.that is simple subject. When buildings
with this special density shaped, then it is an act deserving
criticism for urban designers. Now my question is this , are there
some principles about building density and street scape,but not some
apart titles.

There is a forum called Cyburbia where you might have better luck. This
forum isn't really about urban planning, despite the title.

Cyberbia isn't about planning either.

[george conklin]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by aida

Post by george conklin

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: theurbandesign(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

You need to explain yourself better.

Sorry for my bad english , that is why I couldn't explain well.
As I have told about density I meant building density(( or better I
emphasis the building height)). The building height relates the urban
design subjects such as "enclosure", but this concept doesn't have any
place in urban planning for density determination. At least here in
iran- where I live- is like this. Now what is in my mind is a street
enclosed with high buildings.that is simple subject. When buildings
with this special density shaped, then it is an act deserving
criticism for urban designers. Now my question is this , are there
some principles about building density and street scape,but not some
apart titles.

There is a forum called Cyburbia where you might have better luck. This
forum isn't really about urban planning, despite the title.

Cyurbia is a site for true believers, who are dedicated to the Sierra Club
agenda.

[drydem]

Post by aida

Post by george conklin

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: theurbandesign(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

You need to explain yourself better.

Sorry for my bad english , that is why I couldn't explain well.
As I have told about density I meant building density(( or better I
emphasis the building height)). The building height relates the urban
design subjects such as "enclosure", but this concept doesn't have any
place in urban planning for density determination. At least here in
iran- where I live- is like this. Now what is in my mind is a street
enclosed with high buildings.that is simple subject. When buildings
with this special density shaped, then it is an act deserving
criticism for urban designers. Now my question is this , are there
some principles about building density and street scape,but not some
apart titles.

building height and number of building floors are not the same.

The first floor of a religious building might be over 32 feet high
while
the first floor of a Wal-Mart might be 16 feet high while
the first floor of a grocery store might be only 10 feet high.

urban planner try to keep the building height within a particular
range
for a particular neighborhood.

In the Washington DC area - there are two building density standards.

1) non-residential (commerical-industrial -institutional)
based on the type of enterprise/business/agency
total sq footage, number of workers, number of motor
vehicles,
number of customers, hours of operation ( for mix use
density computations)
2) residential - number of people per home/unit, number of motor
vehicles per home/unit.

[Jack May]

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

The characteristics of density and other functions in cities is in a good
paper at

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/104/17/7301?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Geoffrey+West&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT


You can also get to the paper at

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/search?fulltext=Geoffrey+West&submit.x=9&submit.y=5

Growth, innovation, scaling, and the pace of life in cities
PNAS 2007 104: 7301-7306; published online before print as
10.1073/pnas.0610172104 Lu?s M. A. Bettencourt, José Lobo, Dirk Helbing,
Christian Kühnert, and Geoffrey B. West

Don't know what you are looking for, this paper uses real data to find the
simple power law relations between city size and the following
characteristics. Has nice graphs. Power law statistics tend to be the best
models of most large systems like cities.

New patents
Inventors
Private R&D employment
Supercreative employment
R&D establishments
R&D employment
Total wages
Total bank deposits
GDP
Total electrical consumption
New AIDS cases
Serious crimes
Total housing
Total employment
Household electrical consumption
Household water consumption
Gasoline stations
Gasoline sales
Length of electrical cables
Road surface

[drydem]

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

urban density is dependent on

1) Law/Zoning Ordinance/politics -- of which the most significan
factor is building height limitation
(most planner work to gradually increase building height /
skyline.). The US
Supreme Court ruling which gives local government the ability
to take lands to create
private commerical zones in the name of public domain allows
the politics
of big money to plays a even larger role than before.

2) Cost/Economics
( when buildings are taller than six stories high - the
construction
methods switches from bricks and sticks to reinforce concrete
and a steel superstructure which is more expensive. Bigger
building
also require bigger and more expensive foundations - the
increase
capital required for urban building requires a much more
robust
economy--- big money -- to finance)

3) Physical Infrastructure - maximum capacity of infrastructure
restrict the practical
density level that can be achieved.
a) an extensive roads/mass transit is needed to handle traffic
b) parking - expensive structured parking is usually a necessary
for urban environments
c) water/sewer capacity
d) electrical grid
e) for residential density
school system
recreation
police/fire/rescue services
other public facilities (e.g. public health care)

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by drydem

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

urban density is dependent on
1) Law/Zoning Ordinance/politics -- of which the most significan
factor is building height limitation
(most planner work to gradually increase building height /
skyline.). The US
Supreme Court ruling which gives local government the ability
to take lands to create
private commerical zones in the name of public domain allows
the politics
of big money to plays a even larger role than before.
2) Cost/Economics
( when buildings are taller than six stories high - the
construction
methods switches from bricks and sticks to reinforce concrete
and a steel superstructure which is more expensive. Bigger
building
also require bigger and more expensive foundations - the
increase
capital required for urban building requires a much more
robust
economy--- big money -- to finance)
3) Physical Infrastructure - maximum capacity of infrastructure
restrict the practical
density level that can be achieved.
a) an extensive roads/mass transit is needed to handle traffic
b) parking - expensive structured parking is usually a necessary
for urban environments
c) water/sewer capacity
d) electrical grid
e) for residential density
school system
recreation
police/fire/rescue services
other public facilities (e.g. public health care)

That's assuming rational, thoughtful people are in charge of public policy.
Often planning officials will approve multiple large projects in areas that
don't have the infrastructure in place, knowing that the consequences of
doing so will fall on the next incumbent (or they just don't consider it at
all).

[george conklin]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by drydem

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

urban density is dependent on
1) Law/Zoning Ordinance/politics -- of which the most significan
factor is building height limitation
(most planner work to gradually increase building height /
skyline.). The US
Supreme Court ruling which gives local government the ability
to take lands to create
private commerical zones in the name of public domain allows
the politics
of big money to plays a even larger role than before.
2) Cost/Economics
( when buildings are taller than six stories high - the
construction
methods switches from bricks and sticks to reinforce concrete
and a steel superstructure which is more expensive. Bigger
building
also require bigger and more expensive foundations - the
increase
capital required for urban building requires a much more
robust
economy--- big money -- to finance)
3) Physical Infrastructure - maximum capacity of infrastructure
restrict the practical
density level that can be achieved.
a) an extensive roads/mass transit is needed to handle traffic
b) parking - expensive structured parking is usually a necessary
for urban environments
c) water/sewer capacity
d) electrical grid
e) for residential density
school system
recreation
police/fire/rescue services
other public facilities (e.g. public health care)

That's assuming rational, thoughtful people are in charge of public
policy. Often planning officials will approve multiple large projects in
areas that don't have the infrastructure in place, knowing that the
consequences of doing so will fall on the next incumbent (or they just
don't consider it at all).

Nobody ever builds excess schools or jails or water supplies hoping
something might come up in the future.

Such needs are addressed after there is excess demand. And the more dense
the development, the higher the overall costs too.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by george conklin

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by drydem

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

urban density is dependent on
1) Law/Zoning Ordinance/politics -- of which the most significan
factor is building height limitation
(most planner work to gradually increase building height /
skyline.). The US
Supreme Court ruling which gives local government the ability
to take lands to create
private commerical zones in the name of public domain allows
the politics
of big money to plays a even larger role than before.
2) Cost/Economics
( when buildings are taller than six stories high - the
construction
methods switches from bricks and sticks to reinforce concrete
and a steel superstructure which is more expensive. Bigger
building
also require bigger and more expensive foundations - the
increase
capital required for urban building requires a much more
robust
economy--- big money -- to finance)
3) Physical Infrastructure - maximum capacity of infrastructure
restrict the practical
density level that can be achieved.
a) an extensive roads/mass transit is needed to handle traffic
b) parking - expensive structured parking is usually a necessary
for urban environments
c) water/sewer capacity
d) electrical grid
e) for residential density
school system
recreation
police/fire/rescue services
other public facilities (e.g. public health care)

That's assuming rational, thoughtful people are in charge of public
policy. Often planning officials will approve multiple large projects in
areas that don't have the infrastructure in place, knowing that the
consequences of doing so will fall on the next incumbent (or they just
don't consider it at all).

Nobody ever builds excess schools or jails or water supplies hoping
something might come up in the future.

I rest my case.

[george conklin]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by george conklin

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by drydem

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

urban density is dependent on
1) Law/Zoning Ordinance/politics -- of which the most significan
factor is building height limitation
(most planner work to gradually increase building height /
skyline.). The US
Supreme Court ruling which gives local government the ability
to take lands to create
private commerical zones in the name of public domain allows
the politics
of big money to plays a even larger role than before.
2) Cost/Economics
( when buildings are taller than six stories high - the
construction
methods switches from bricks and sticks to reinforce concrete
and a steel superstructure which is more expensive. Bigger
building
also require bigger and more expensive foundations - the
increase
capital required for urban building requires a much more
robust
economy--- big money -- to finance)
3) Physical Infrastructure - maximum capacity of infrastructure
restrict the practical
density level that can be achieved.
a) an extensive roads/mass transit is needed to handle traffic
b) parking - expensive structured parking is usually a necessary
for urban environments
c) water/sewer capacity
d) electrical grid
e) for residential density
school system
recreation
police/fire/rescue services
other public facilities (e.g. public health care)

That's assuming rational, thoughtful people are in charge of public
policy. Often planning officials will approve multiple large projects in
areas that don't have the infrastructure in place, knowing that the
consequences of doing so will fall on the next incumbent (or they just
don't consider it at all).

Nobody ever builds excess schools or jails or water supplies hoping
something might come up in the future.

I rest my case.

So, after the demand, the need is met. That is the way it always has
been.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by george conklin

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by george conklin

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by drydem

Post by aida
i want useful principles for density
determination(e.g: the urban design(or traffic) guidlines and their
relation in density determination??would you plz help me ..

urban density is dependent on
1) Law/Zoning Ordinance/politics -- of which the most significan
factor is building height limitation
(most planner work to gradually increase building height /
skyline.). The US
Supreme Court ruling which gives local government the ability
to take lands to create
private commerical zones in the name of public domain allows
the politics
of big money to plays a even larger role than before.
2) Cost/Economics
( when buildings are taller than six stories high - the
construction
methods switches from bricks and sticks to reinforce concrete
and a steel superstructure which is more expensive. Bigger
building
also require bigger and more expensive foundations - the
increase
capital required for urban building requires a much more
robust
economy--- big money -- to finance)
3) Physical Infrastructure - maximum capacity of infrastructure
restrict the practical
density level that can be achieved.
a) an extensive roads/mass transit is needed to handle traffic
b) parking - expensive structured parking is usually a necessary
for urban environments
c) water/sewer capacity
d) electrical grid
e) for residential density
school system
recreation
police/fire/rescue services
other public facilities (e.g. public health care)

That's assuming rational, thoughtful people are in charge of public
policy. Often planning officials will approve multiple large projects
in areas that don't have the infrastructure in place, knowing that the
consequences of doing so will fall on the next incumbent (or they just
don't consider it at all).

Nobody ever builds excess schools or jails or water supplies hoping
something might come up in the future.

I rest my case.

So, after the demand, the need is met. That is the way it always has
been.

No, it means that you always have a situation where there are not enough
schools, for instance, if schools are only built to meet existing demand and
no excess capacity is ever bolt. It also means that nobody ever considers
developing in a way that allows the infrastructure to be built efficiently
and cheaply, since the infrastructure is only put in place around whatever
happens to have been built.