Discussion:
"The Liturature"
(too old to reply)
Pat
2007-05-29 15:40:06 UTC
Permalink
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.

Here's an interesting article on it.
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html

This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
paradox:

Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
Mr.Cool (Call me William if you would like) Defender of a complex life
2007-05-29 20:55:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
Different defs of suburbs.

Webster's dictionary defines (I feel like I'm starting a speech) a
suburbs as

an outlying part of a city or town b : a smaller community adjacent to
or within commuting distance of a city c plural : the residential area
on the outskirts of a city or large town
2 plural : the near vicinity : ENVIRONS

other deffinitions include: -a residential district located on the
outskirts of a city

-Suburbs are inhabited districts located either on the outer rim of a
city or outside the official limits of a city (the term varies from
country to country), or the outer elements of a conurbation.

-residential area within the boundaries of a town or city

-An area of housing around the edge of a city.

What do you think the modern 21st century deffinition of a suburb
would be?
Pat
2007-05-30 00:54:34 UTC
Permalink
On May 29, 4:55 pm, "Mr.Cool (Call me William if you would like)
Post by Mr.Cool (Call me William if you would like) Defender of a complex life
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
Different defs of suburbs.
Webster's dictionary defines (I feel like I'm starting a speech) a
suburbs as
an outlying part of a city or town b : a smaller community adjacent to
or within commuting distance of a city c plural : the residential area
on the outskirts of a city or large town
2 plural : the near vicinity : ENVIRONS
other deffinitions include: -a residential district located on the
outskirts of a city
-Suburbs are inhabited districts located either on the outer rim of a
city or outside the official limits of a city (the term varies from
country to country), or the outer elements of a conurbation.
-residential area within the boundaries of a town or city
-An area of housing around the edge of a city.
What do you think the modern 21st century deffinition of a suburb
would be?
I'm not sure what the definition is. I think it's almost a
directional thing. People in "the city" think it's differnent than
people in "the burbs". You often get directional attributes in
geography and it makes the math absolutely horrible. But then again,
all geographic math is horrible. Try doing two-dimensional margins of
error some time. Glad those days are over.
Mr.Cool (Call me William if you would like) Defender of a complex life
2007-05-30 04:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
On May 29, 4:55 pm, "Mr.Cool (Call me William if you would like)
Post by Mr.Cool (Call me William if you would like) Defender of a complex life
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
Different defs of suburbs.
Webster's dictionary defines (I feel like I'm starting a speech) a
suburbs as
an outlying part of a city or town b : a smaller community adjacent to
or within commuting distance of a city c plural : the residential area
on the outskirts of a city or large town
2 plural : the near vicinity : ENVIRONS
other deffinitions include: -a residential district located on the
outskirts of a city
-Suburbs are inhabited districts located either on the outer rim of a
city or outside the official limits of a city (the term varies from
country to country), or the outer elements of a conurbation.
-residential area within the boundaries of a town or city
-An area of housing around the edge of a city.
What do you think the modern 21st century deffinition of a suburb
would be?
I'm not sure what the definition is. I think it's almost a
directional thing. People in "the city" think it's differnent than
people in "the burbs". You often get directional attributes in
geography and it makes the math absolutely horrible. But then again,
all geographic math is horrible. Try doing two-dimensional margins of
error some time. Glad those days are over.
Yea, its kind of like in a way everybodys middle class, to teachers
anyone who is making $$$ in the triple digets is upper class.
George Conklin
2007-06-04 23:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
I guess you will gladly sign up for any quack medicine some traveling
salesman pushes, since it is not peer-reviewed and you can't read statistics
anyway. I hope you don't imbibe too much poison.
Pat
2007-06-05 01:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
I guess you will gladly sign up for any quack medicine some traveling
salesman pushes, since it is not peer-reviewed and you can't read statistics
anyway. I hope you don't imbibe too much poison.
George, I hate to tell you this, but YOU are the personification of
EVERYTHING that is wrong with our educational system. You are what is
screwing up America.

There you are, sitting in the middle of G*d knows where and spoutin of
half-cocked idea, misinterpreting what you read, jumping to
unsupported conclusions and saying things like "you can't read
statistics" about someone who you know very little about. Guess what,
I can read statistics it's just that I believe that college professor
such as you lie in order to make your points. Yes, George, I believe
that people like you manipulate data in order to make their points.
If you don't think it's fairly easy to manipulate data, then you'd
better go get yourself a new line of work -- because you've started to
believe your own lies.

I also know that statistics are estimates, not actual numbers. I also
know that there are confidence intervals. I also know that with
polling and other data, they never end the sentence with "accurate to
within 3%, 95% of the time"; which means, George, that it ain't
accurate 5% of the time. I also know George, that people lie when
they talk to pollsters. I also know George, that voting results are
sometime very different than what the vote is. Finally I know that
numbers and figures need interpretation -- they don't mean anything in
a void. You seem to have forgotten that.

If you believe all published information, then you must believe that
all drugs are "safe and effective". They have been through "rigorous
trials" to show that people don't get hurt taking them. If you
believe all published information, you must believe we have had a
President named Dewey. Hey, that's what the polling said.

If you believe all published articles, then Newton and Einstein are
wrong. That's what the articles back in "the day" said.

If YOU believed in published article, you'd provide me the ONE example
I have been waiting for. You know, the one that proves you're not
just full of hot air.

Finally, George, here is your paradox. Here is the one thing that you
cannot make sense in your little red brick world: If you read the
article, you'd see it shows how your precious articles are pretty much
shams. The article appears in a journal. So the article can't be a
sham, it appeared in a journal. But if it's not a sham, then journal
articles, including that one, are shams. So your entire little world
comes crashing down.

Finally, George, I think that article might have hit home to you as
you edit your third-rate journal so that you can publish only things
that you agree with -- and more importantly only people who agree with
you. It isn't an independed journal, it is a groupthink. That's that
the article represented and frankly I believe it in most cases. You
would never allow an article to be published if you disagreed with it
because it would cause your small, shallow little world to cave in
around you.

Two final questions for you, George. First, does it scare you to lie
in bed at night and think of how narrow minded you are and that the
fact you you've been so complacent for so long has sucked all of the
original thought out of your brain. Second, where's my example?
Still waiting. After you provide that, we can talk further.
George Conklin
2007-06-05 11:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
I guess you will gladly sign up for any quack medicine some traveling
salesman pushes, since it is not peer-reviewed and you can't read statistics
anyway. I hope you don't imbibe too much poison.
George, I hate to tell you this, but YOU are the personification of
EVERYTHING that is wrong with our educational system. You are what is
screwing up America.
Well, criticizing medical testing is totally irresponsible and your
irresponsibility is exceeded only by your irresponsbility.
Post by Pat
There you are, sitting in the middle of G*d knows where and spoutin of
half-cocked idea, misinterpreting what you read, jumping to
unsupported conclusions and saying things like "you can't read
statistics" about someone who you know very little about.
I misrepresent nothing. You have nothing to to say expcept your own
personal opinions which reflect hatred.



Guess what,
Post by Pat
I can read statistics it's just that I believe that college professor
such as you lie in order to make your points. Yes, George, I believe
that people like you manipulate data in order to make their points.
I suggest you write to journals and tell them the truth then. I am sure
they have crank files.
Post by Pat
If you don't think it's fairly easy to manipulate data, then you'd
better go get yourself a new line of work -- because you've started to
believe your own lies.
I also know that statistics are estimates, not actual numbers. I also
know that there are confidence intervals. I also know that with
polling and other data, they never end the sentence with "accurate to
within 3%, 95% of the time"; which means, George, that it ain't
accurate 5% of the time. I also know George, that people lie when
they talk to pollsters. I also know George, that voting results are
sometime very different than what the vote is. Finally I know that
numbers and figures need interpretation -- they don't mean anything in
a void. You seem to have forgotten that.
If you believe all published information, then you must believe that
all drugs are "safe and effective". They have been through "rigorous
trials" to show that people don't get hurt taking them. If you
believe all published information, you must believe we have had a
President named Dewey. Hey, that's what the polling said.
If you believe all published articles, then Newton and Einstein are
wrong. That's what the articles back in "the day" said.
If YOU believed in published article, you'd provide me the ONE example
I have been waiting for. You know, the one that proves you're not
just full of hot air.
Finally, George, here is your paradox. Here is the one thing that you
cannot make sense in your little red brick world: If you read the
article, you'd see it shows how your precious articles are pretty much
shams. The article appears in a journal. So the article can't be a
sham, it appeared in a journal. But if it's not a sham, then journal
articles, including that one, are shams. So your entire little world
comes crashing down.
Finally, George, I think that article might have hit home to you as
you edit your third-rate journal so that you can publish only things
that you agree with -- and more importantly only people who agree with
you. It isn't an independed journal, it is a groupthink. That's that
the article represented and frankly I believe it in most cases. You
would never allow an article to be published if you disagreed with it
because it would cause your small, shallow little world to cave in
around you.
Two final questions for you, George. First, does it scare you to lie
in bed at night and think of how narrow minded you are and that the
fact you you've been so complacent for so long has sucked all of the
original thought out of your brain. Second, where's my example?
Still waiting. After you provide that, we can talk further.
My, my,. your hatred of refereed works knows no bounds. Making fun of
medical journals now. What next? Are you going to say they all
misinterpret their data too, like that dumb link you posted? What are we
supposed to do? Check with you for our medications? Our thoughts? How
horrid an idea.
Pat
2007-06-05 16:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
I guess you will gladly sign up for any quack medicine some traveling
salesman pushes, since it is not peer-reviewed and you can't read
statistics
Post by Pat
Post by George Conklin
anyway. I hope you don't imbibe too much poison.
George, I hate to tell you this, but YOU are the personification of
EVERYTHING that is wrong with our educational system. You are what is
screwing up America.
Well, criticizing medical testing is totally irresponsible and your
irresponsibility is exceeded only by your irresponsbility.
Post by Pat
There you are, sitting in the middle of G*d knows where and spoutin of
half-cocked idea, misinterpreting what you read, jumping to
unsupported conclusions and saying things like "you can't read
statistics" about someone who you know very little about.
I misrepresent nothing. You have nothing to to say expcept your own
personal opinions which reflect hatred.
Guess what,
Post by Pat
I can read statistics it's just that I believe that college professor
such as you lie in order to make your points. Yes, George, I believe
that people like you manipulate data in order to make their points.
I suggest you write to journals and tell them the truth then. I am sure
they have crank files.
Post by Pat
If you don't think it's fairly easy to manipulate data, then you'd
better go get yourself a new line of work -- because you've started to
believe your own lies.
I also know that statistics are estimates, not actual numbers. I also
know that there are confidence intervals. I also know that with
polling and other data, they never end the sentence with "accurate to
within 3%, 95% of the time"; which means, George, that it ain't
accurate 5% of the time. I also know George, that people lie when
they talk to pollsters. I also know George, that voting results are
sometime very different than what the vote is. Finally I know that
numbers and figures need interpretation -- they don't mean anything in
a void. You seem to have forgotten that.
If you believe all published information, then you must believe that
all drugs are "safe and effective". They have been through "rigorous
trials" to show that people don't get hurt taking them. If you
believe all published information, you must believe we have had a
President named Dewey. Hey, that's what the polling said.
If you believe all published articles, then Newton and Einstein are
wrong. That's what the articles back in "the day" said.
If YOU believed in published article, you'd provide me the ONE example
I have been waiting for. You know, the one that proves you're not
just full of hot air.
Finally, George, here is your paradox. Here is the one thing that you
cannot make sense in your little red brick world: If you read the
article, you'd see it shows how your precious articles are pretty much
shams. The article appears in a journal. So the article can't be a
sham, it appeared in a journal. But if it's not a sham, then journal
articles, including that one, are shams. So your entire little world
comes crashing down.
Finally, George, I think that article might have hit home to you as
you edit your third-rate journal so that you can publish only things
that you agree with -- and more importantly only people who agree with
you. It isn't an independed journal, it is a groupthink. That's that
the article represented and frankly I believe it in most cases. You
would never allow an article to be published if you disagreed with it
because it would cause your small, shallow little world to cave in
around you.
Two final questions for you, George. First, does it scare you to lie
in bed at night and think of how narrow minded you are and that the
fact you you've been so complacent for so long has sucked all of the
original thought out of your brain. Second, where's my example?
Still waiting. After you provide that, we can talk further.
My, my,. your hatred of refereed works knows no bounds. Making fun of
medical journals now. What next? Are you going to say they all
misinterpret their data too, like that dumb link you posted? What are we
supposed to do? Check with you for our medications? Our thoughts? How
horrid an idea.
Still waiting for my example, George. Just one example.

You can't come up with one, can you? Your theories have no merit.
Clark F Morris
2007-06-05 17:11:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:28:49 GMT, "George Conklin"
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
I guess you will gladly sign up for any quack medicine some traveling
salesman pushes, since it is not peer-reviewed and you can't read
statistics
Post by Pat
Post by George Conklin
anyway. I hope you don't imbibe too much poison.
George, I hate to tell you this, but YOU are the personification of
EVERYTHING that is wrong with our educational system. You are what is
screwing up America.
Well, criticizing medical testing is totally irresponsible and your
irresponsibility is exceeded only by your irresponsbility.
Even when the criticism is done by a respected researcher at Toronto's
Hospital for Sick Children, the Federal Food and Drug Administration
or various universities?
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
There you are, sitting in the middle of G*d knows where and spoutin of
half-cocked idea, misinterpreting what you read, jumping to
unsupported conclusions and saying things like "you can't read
statistics" about someone who you know very little about.
I misrepresent nothing. You have nothing to to say expcept your own
personal opinions which reflect hatred.
There are times when I find you have misread things that I have
posted, and I suspect I have done the same with other postings.
Post by George Conklin
Guess what,
Post by Pat
I can read statistics it's just that I believe that college professor
such as you lie in order to make your points. Yes, George, I believe
that people like you manipulate data in order to make their points.
I suggest you write to journals and tell them the truth then. I am sure
they have crank files.
There have been journal reviewed articles that have had to be
withdrawn because of fraud. A Korean researcher in stem cells comes
to mind. A Bancroft prize for a book on gun ownership had to be
withdrawn because the author falsified sources. I started with the
Wall Street Journal article on the subject and verified it at the
Columbia University site and the Emory University site.
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
If you don't think it's fairly easy to manipulate data, then you'd
better go get yourself a new line of work -- because you've started to
believe your own lies.
I also know that statistics are estimates, not actual numbers. I also
know that there are confidence intervals. I also know that with
polling and other data, they never end the sentence with "accurate to
within 3%, 95% of the time"; which means, George, that it ain't
accurate 5% of the time. I also know George, that people lie when
they talk to pollsters. I also know George, that voting results are
sometime very different than what the vote is. Finally I know that
numbers and figures need interpretation -- they don't mean anything in
a void. You seem to have forgotten that.
If you believe all published information, then you must believe that
all drugs are "safe and effective". They have been through "rigorous
trials" to show that people don't get hurt taking them. If you
believe all published information, you must believe we have had a
President named Dewey. Hey, that's what the polling said.
If you believe all published articles, then Newton and Einstein are
wrong. That's what the articles back in "the day" said.
If YOU believed in published article, you'd provide me the ONE example
I have been waiting for. You know, the one that proves you're not
just full of hot air.
Finally, George, here is your paradox. Here is the one thing that you
cannot make sense in your little red brick world: If you read the
article, you'd see it shows how your precious articles are pretty much
shams. The article appears in a journal. So the article can't be a
sham, it appeared in a journal. But if it's not a sham, then journal
articles, including that one, are shams. So your entire little world
comes crashing down.
Finally, George, I think that article might have hit home to you as
you edit your third-rate journal so that you can publish only things
that you agree with -- and more importantly only people who agree with
you. It isn't an independed journal, it is a groupthink. That's that
the article represented and frankly I believe it in most cases. You
would never allow an article to be published if you disagreed with it
because it would cause your small, shallow little world to cave in
around you.
Two final questions for you, George. First, does it scare you to lie
in bed at night and think of how narrow minded you are and that the
fact you you've been so complacent for so long has sucked all of the
original thought out of your brain. Second, where's my example?
Still waiting. After you provide that, we can talk further.
My, my,. your hatred of refereed works knows no bounds. Making fun of
medical journals now. What next? Are you going to say they all
misinterpret their data too, like that dumb link you posted? What are we
supposed to do? Check with you for our medications? Our thoughts? How
horrid an idea.
See the examples cited above. There are cases of honest
misinterpretation where the preliminary results look promising and
relevant but further study shows that the conclusion drawn from the
data was flawed. One of the types of heart surgery comes to mind. The
flawed premises that spawned high rise low income projects are another
case.
George Conklin
2007-06-06 00:35:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clark F Morris
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:28:49 GMT, "George Conklin"
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
I suppose that much of what I say/think/do doesn't agree with "the
liturature". That doesn't bother me ... mostly because of my distain
for authority and my feeling that most published research is bunk.
Here's an interesting article on it.
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band88/b88-4.html
This opens up quite a few interesting questions, starting with this
Most published research in bunk.
This is published research.
Does that mean "this is bunk". If not, then isn't the hypothosis
wrong?
I guess you will gladly sign up for any quack medicine some traveling
salesman pushes, since it is not peer-reviewed and you can't read
statistics
Post by Pat
Post by George Conklin
anyway. I hope you don't imbibe too much poison.
George, I hate to tell you this, but YOU are the personification of
EVERYTHING that is wrong with our educational system. You are what is
screwing up America.
Well, criticizing medical testing is totally irresponsible and your
irresponsibility is exceeded only by your irresponsbility.
Even when the criticism is done by a respected researcher at Toronto's
Hospital for Sick Children, the Federal Food and Drug Administration
or various universities?
Post by George Conklin
Post by Pat
There you are, sitting in the middle of G*d knows where and spoutin of
half-cocked idea, misinterpreting what you read, jumping to
unsupported conclusions and saying things like "you can't read
statistics" about someone who you know very little about.
I misrepresent nothing. You have nothing to to say expcept your own
personal opinions which reflect hatred.
There are times when I find you have misread things that I have
posted, and I suspect I have done the same with other postings.
Post by George Conklin
Guess what,
Post by Pat
I can read statistics it's just that I believe that college professor
such as you lie in order to make your points. Yes, George, I believe
that people like you manipulate data in order to make their points.
I suggest you write to journals and tell them the truth then. I am sure
they have crank files.
There have been journal reviewed articles that have had to be
withdrawn because of fraud. \
Few. As for Usenet, most of it is nonsense, as you so well prove.
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