Think of it as Induced Traffic in Action

[Scott en Aztlán]

And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring
us in the face:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-210fwy23jul23,1,5935219.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage

The 210 has also become a magnet for commercial and housing
development. Fontana, for instance, has created what it calls the
"Miracle Mile" along the new stretch of freeway, consisting of car
dealerships, big-box centers and other retail businesses.

When the last 210 extension reached Fontana in 2002, it brought with
it a development boom. The freeway suddenly made the city more
attractive to developers because it made the commute into L.A. County
much faster. In June, the U.S. Census Bureau ranked Fontana as the
nation's 21st-fastest-growing city, with its population rising to
170,099 in July 2006, a 3.4% jump from the previous year.

Fontana Mayor Mark Nuaimi makes no apologies if his city's rise makes
traffic worse for his neighbors farther west.

"I don't feel bad. It's traffic from the region. The region is
growing," Nuaimi said. "With the 210 being completed into our
community, it has made Fontana a viable community for people who work
in Pasadena, who work in Glendora. They can now live in Fontana and
readily commute."

[Joe the Aroma]

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-210fwy23jul23,1,5935219.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage
The 210 has also become a magnet for commercial and housing
development. Fontana, for instance, has created what it calls the
"Miracle Mile" along the new stretch of freeway, consisting of car
dealerships, big-box centers and other retail businesses.
When the last 210 extension reached Fontana in 2002, it brought with
it a development boom. The freeway suddenly made the city more
attractive to developers because it made the commute into L.A. County
much faster. In June, the U.S. Census Bureau ranked Fontana as the
nation's 21st-fastest-growing city, with its population rising to
170,099 in July 2006, a 3.4% jump from the previous year.
Fontana Mayor Mark Nuaimi makes no apologies if his city's rise makes
traffic worse for his neighbors farther west.
"I don't feel bad. It's traffic from the region. The region is
growing," Nuaimi said. "With the 210 being completed into our
community, it has made Fontana a viable community for people who work
in Pasadena, who work in Glendora. They can now live in Fontana and
readily commute."

What is "induced traffic"?

[Scott en Aztlán]

Post by Joe the Aroma
What is "induced traffic"?

Is your Googlefinger broken?

http://userpages.itis.com/burleigh/issues/traffic_bib.html

[RJ]

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Post by Joe the Aroma
What is "induced traffic"?

Is your Googlefinger broken?
http://userpages.itis.com/burleigh/issues/traffic_bib.html

Problem is, it's mythical. All you have to do is demonstrate roads that
have been built and are not swamped to disprove it.

There is pent-up demand for unbuilt roads, but the 'induced demand' has
the cause and effect backwards.

[Scott en Aztlán]

Problem is, [induced traffic is] mythical.

Your assertion is trivial to disprove. If even ONE PERSON moves out to
Fontana because a new freeeway suddenly makes it tolerable to live
there, then it's fact, not myth.

And, as the article shows, there were many more than just one person
who moved out there - the new extension caused a building boom.

[RJ]

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Problem is, [induced traffic is] mythical.

Your assertion is trivial to disprove. If even ONE PERSON moves out to
Fontana because a new freeeway suddenly makes it tolerable to live
there, then it's fact, not myth.

Or proof that living conditions in the area are already too congested
for humans.

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And, as the article shows, there were many more than just one person
who moved out there - the new extension caused a building boom.

What about the roads built that do not get swamped already? CT 8 north
of Waterbury, or the western 2/3 of I-86? Why might that happen?

[gpsman]

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Problem is, [induced traffic is] mythical.

Your assertion is trivial to disprove. If even ONE PERSON moves out to
Fontana because a new freeeway suddenly makes it tolerable to live
there, then it's fact, not myth.

Wouldn't you need to know if that person moved there "because" of the
new freeway? Or at least what percentage of their motivation to move
there was due to said freeway? What percentage would qualify the move
as attributable to the new freeway, 1%? 0.01%?
------

- gpsman

[George Conklin]

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Problem is, [induced traffic is] mythical.

Your assertion is trivial to disprove. If even ONE PERSON moves out to
Fontana because a new freeeway suddenly makes it tolerable to live
there, then it's fact, not myth.

Wouldn't you need to know if that person moved there "because" of the
new freeway? Or at least what percentage of their motivation to move
there was due to said freeway? What percentage would qualify the move
as attributable to the new freeway, 1%? 0.01%?
------

- gpsman

If the population is not going to be rural, then cities must grow, as
must transport.

[George Conklin]

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Problem is, [induced traffic is] mythical.

Your assertion is trivial to disprove. If even ONE PERSON moves out to
Fontana because a new freeeway suddenly makes it tolerable to live
there, then it's fact, not myth.

By your logic, trolley cars induced demand too. We should have banned
them so the population would have remained rural and you happier.

[Jack May]

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-210fwy23jul23,1,5935219.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage
The 210 has also become a magnet for commercial and housing
development. Fontana, for instance, has created what it calls the
"Miracle Mile" along the new stretch of freeway, consisting of car
dealerships, big-box centers and other retail businesses.
When the last 210 extension reached Fontana in 2002, it brought with
it a development boom. The freeway suddenly made the city more
attractive to developers because it made the commute into L.A. County
much faster. In June, the U.S. Census Bureau ranked Fontana as the
nation's 21st-fastest-growing city, with its population rising to
170,099 in July 2006, a 3.4% jump from the previous year.
Fontana Mayor Mark Nuaimi makes no apologies if his city's rise makes
traffic worse for his neighbors farther west.
"I don't feel bad. It's traffic from the region. The region is
growing," Nuaimi said. "With the 210 being completed into our
community, it has made Fontana a viable community for people who work
in Pasadena, who work in Glendora. They can now live in Fontana and
readily commute."

What is "induced traffic"?

Well it is obvious that Scott does not understand induced traffic.
Induced traffic is when there is more total traffic in a region after a road
is built than before the road is built.

Somehow the new road will make people drive a longer distance to work just
to use the new road. There are people that think people will just suddenly
appear from nowhere to fill up a new road. Typically that is the argument
of transit supporters.

It never happens in the short term as has been proven in research, What
Scott is describing is the growth of a new suburb with nothing saying that
total miles traveled to and from work has increased or decreased. He just
assumes the distance to their job has increased,

With companies moving further out for lower costs, a lot of people may be
following their company to the lower cost area.

Longer term (10-20 years) people often move further from work to get a
cheaper, bigger house. Even then the migration of businesses may continue.

[George Conklin]

Post by Jack May

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-210fwy23jul23,1,5935219
.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage

Post by Jack May

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
The 210 has also become a magnet for commercial and housing
development. Fontana, for instance, has created what it calls the
"Miracle Mile" along the new stretch of freeway, consisting of car
dealerships, big-box centers and other retail businesses.
When the last 210 extension reached Fontana in 2002, it brought with
it a development boom. The freeway suddenly made the city more
attractive to developers because it made the commute into L.A. County
much faster. In June, the U.S. Census Bureau ranked Fontana as the
nation's 21st-fastest-growing city, with its population rising to
170,099 in July 2006, a 3.4% jump from the previous year.
Fontana Mayor Mark Nuaimi makes no apologies if his city's rise makes
traffic worse for his neighbors farther west.
"I don't feel bad. It's traffic from the region. The region is
growing," Nuaimi said. "With the 210 being completed into our
community, it has made Fontana a viable community for people who work
in Pasadena, who work in Glendora. They can now live in Fontana and
readily commute."

What is "induced traffic"?

Well it is obvious that Scott does not understand induced traffic.
Induced traffic is when there is more total traffic in a region after a road
is built than before the road is built.

Let us look at that. We are 20-30 years behind in building roads, so
when one is built, people use it. Planners hate that. They think that if
people still used mules and horses and maybe even steam elevated railroads,
then people would travel less. They are opposed to any travel, period.
Just like the in the 1820s when British elites were opposed to railroads
because they would encourage the average person to travel. Travel was an
elite undertaking. It is still supposed to be that.

[George Conklin]

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-210fwy23jul23,1,5935219
.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
The 210 has also become a magnet for commercial and housing
development. Fontana, for instance, has created what it calls the
"Miracle Mile" along the new stretch of freeway, consisting of car
dealerships, big-box centers and other retail businesses.
When the last 210 extension reached Fontana in 2002, it brought with
it a development boom. The freeway suddenly made the city more
attractive to developers because it made the commute into L.A. County
much faster. In June, the U.S. Census Bureau ranked Fontana as the
nation's 21st-fastest-growing city, with its population rising to
170,099 in July 2006, a 3.4% jump from the previous year.
Fontana Mayor Mark Nuaimi makes no apologies if his city's rise makes
traffic worse for his neighbors farther west.
"I don't feel bad. It's traffic from the region. The region is
growing," Nuaimi said. "With the 210 being completed into our
community, it has made Fontana a viable community for people who work
in Pasadena, who work in Glendora. They can now live in Fontana and
readily commute."

What is "induced traffic"?

Induced traffic is a myth put for by planners who simply hate the automobile
and wish us to live like before the car was invented, using horses and mules
to get around. I've never heard of them speaking of induced mules, however.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-210fwy23jul23,1,5935219
.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
The 210 has also become a magnet for commercial and housing
development. Fontana, for instance, has created what it calls the
"Miracle Mile" along the new stretch of freeway, consisting of car
dealerships, big-box centers and other retail businesses.
When the last 210 extension reached Fontana in 2002, it brought with
it a development boom. The freeway suddenly made the city more
attractive to developers because it made the commute into L.A. County
much faster. In June, the U.S. Census Bureau ranked Fontana as the
nation's 21st-fastest-growing city, with its population rising to
170,099 in July 2006, a 3.4% jump from the previous year.
Fontana Mayor Mark Nuaimi makes no apologies if his city's rise makes
traffic worse for his neighbors farther west.
"I don't feel bad. It's traffic from the region. The region is
growing," Nuaimi said. "With the 210 being completed into our
community, it has made Fontana a viable community for people who work
in Pasadena, who work in Glendora. They can now live in Fontana and
readily commute."

What is "induced traffic"?

Induced traffic is a myth put for by planners who simply hate the automobile
and wish us to live like before the car was invented, using horses and mules
to get around. I've never heard of them speaking of induced mules, however.

That's known as breeding (don't look!).

[DYM]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an
idiot would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here,

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-210fwy23jul23,1,5
935219 .story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
The 210 has also become a magnet for commercial and housing
development. Fontana, for instance, has created what it calls the
"Miracle Mile" along the new stretch of freeway, consisting of car
dealerships, big-box centers and other retail businesses.
When the last 210 extension reached Fontana in 2002, it brought
with it a development boom. The freeway suddenly made the city
more attractive to developers because it made the commute into
L.A. County much faster. In June, the U.S. Census Bureau ranked
Fontana as the nation's 21st-fastest-growing city, with its
population rising to 170,099 in July 2006, a 3.4% jump from the
previous year.
Fontana Mayor Mark Nuaimi makes no apologies if his city's rise
makes traffic worse for his neighbors farther west.
"I don't feel bad. It's traffic from the region. The region is
growing," Nuaimi said. "With the 210 being completed into our
community, it has made Fontana a viable community for people who
work in Pasadena, who work in Glendora. They can now live in
Fontana and readily commute."

What is "induced traffic"?

Induced traffic is a myth put for by planners who simply hate the automobile
and wish us to live like before the car was invented, using horses and mules
to get around. I've never heard of them speaking of induced mules, however.

That's known as breeding (don't look!).

But mules are sterile! Supposedly. Atleast outside of Colorado.

So induced traffic is the theory that building a new road to relieve
traffic congestion causes more traffic volume? Huh, a new phrase to bandy
about.

Doug

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an
idiot would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here,

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-210fwy23jul23,1,5
935219 .story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage

Post by Joe the Aroma

Post by Scott en Aztlán
The 210 has also become a magnet for commercial and housing
development. Fontana, for instance, has created what it calls the
"Miracle Mile" along the new stretch of freeway, consisting of car
dealerships, big-box centers and other retail businesses.
When the last 210 extension reached Fontana in 2002, it brought
with it a development boom. The freeway suddenly made the city
more attractive to developers because it made the commute into
L.A. County much faster. In June, the U.S. Census Bureau ranked
Fontana as the nation's 21st-fastest-growing city, with its
population rising to 170,099 in July 2006, a 3.4% jump from the
previous year.
Fontana Mayor Mark Nuaimi makes no apologies if his city's rise
makes traffic worse for his neighbors farther west.
"I don't feel bad. It's traffic from the region. The region is
growing," Nuaimi said. "With the 210 being completed into our
community, it has made Fontana a viable community for people who
work in Pasadena, who work in Glendora. They can now live in
Fontana and readily commute."

What is "induced traffic"?

Induced traffic is a myth put for by planners who simply hate the automobile
and wish us to live like before the car was invented, using horses and mules
to get around. I've never heard of them speaking of induced mules, however.

That's known as breeding (don't look!).

But mules are sterile! Supposedly. Atleast outside of Colorado.

The parents of mules are not sterile. I thought that would be obvious, but
apparently not.

[DYM]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by George Conklin
Induced traffic is a myth put for by planners who simply hate the automobile
and wish us to live like before the car was invented, using horses and mules
to get around. I've never heard of them speaking of induced mules, however.

That's known as breeding (don't look!).

But mules are sterile! Supposedly. Atleast outside of Colorado.

The parents of mules are not sterile. I thought that would be
obvious, but apparently not.

But most bordering on all parents of mules are not mules.


There was an item last Friday on NPR about a *mule* giving birth
somewhere in CO.

Doug

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by George Conklin
Induced traffic is a myth put for by planners who simply hate the automobile
and wish us to live like before the car was invented, using horses and mules
to get around. I've never heard of them speaking of induced mules, however.

That's known as breeding (don't look!).

But mules are sterile! Supposedly. Atleast outside of Colorado.

The parents of mules are not sterile. I thought that would be
obvious, but apparently not.

But most bordering on all parents of mules are not mules.

How is that relevant to the point?

[DYM]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by George Conklin
Induced traffic is a myth put for by planners who simply hate the automobile
and wish us to live like before the car was invented, using horses and mules
to get around. I've never heard of them speaking of induced

mules,

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by George Conklin
however.

That's known as breeding (don't look!).

But mules are sterile! Supposedly. Atleast outside of Colorado.

The parents of mules are not sterile. I thought that would be
obvious, but apparently not.

But most bordering on all parents of mules are not mules.

How is that relevant to the point?

We've gotten very far off topic, so to be explicit. Mules are sterile,
they do not reproduce. They are a hybred of the a horse & burro. So it
would be difficult to induce labor in a mule. Or introduce pregnacy for
that matter.

So, induced traffic is that which would not be in the area normally. It
only appears because the new road was built. That's the theory. It is
being debunked as a myth. A new road just releaves pressure on other
roads.

The last major new road around here was the "Blue Route" I476. Aside from
developments, have there been any new major roads in SE PA?

Doug

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by George Conklin
Induced traffic is a myth put for by planners who simply hate the automobile
and wish us to live like before the car was invented, using horses and mules
to get around. I've never heard of them speaking of induced

mules,

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by George Conklin
however.

That's known as breeding (don't look!).

But mules are sterile! Supposedly. Atleast outside of Colorado.

The parents of mules are not sterile. I thought that would be
obvious, but apparently not.

But most bordering on all parents of mules are not mules.

How is that relevant to the point?

We've gotten very far off topic, so to be explicit. Mules are sterile,
they do not reproduce. They are a hybred of the a horse & burro. So it
would be difficult to induce labor in a mule. Or introduce pregnacy for
that matter.

The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

[DYM]

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

And the mother would not have been a mule, probably. Again, try to keep up.

[DYM]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

And the mother would not have been a mule, probably. Again, try to keep up.

So, the mule would not have been induced, but maybe the burro?

I'm starting to think I've been had.

Doug

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

And the mother would not have been a mule, probably. Again, try to keep up.

So, the mule would not have been induced, but maybe the burro?
I'm starting to think I've been had.

What was induced was the mule, not the labor. It was induced by breeding.
Whether the labor needed to be induced or not does not matter even a little
bit.

[DYM]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

And the mother would not have been a mule, probably. Again, try to keep up.

So, the mule would not have been induced, but maybe the burro?
I'm starting to think I've been had.

What was induced was the mule, not the labor. It was induced by
breeding. Whether the labor needed to be induced or not does not
matter even a little bit.

What was the mule induced to do, specifically?

How was the mule induced, specifically?

Keeping in mind a valid defination of induced.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/induced

Doug

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

And the mother would not have been a mule, probably. Again, try to keep up.

So, the mule would not have been induced, but maybe the burro?
I'm starting to think I've been had.

What was induced was the mule, not the labor. It was induced by
breeding. Whether the labor needed to be induced or not does not
matter even a little bit.

What was the mule induced to do, specifically?
How was the mule induced, specifically?
Keeping in mind a valid defination of induced.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/induced

If you don't understand how breeding works, this is hardly the place to
enlighten you. Besides, George has a well known phobia about equine sexual
activity. If you're really curious, there are several videos on YouTube
that show the process in action.

[DYM]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

And the mother would not have been a mule, probably. Again, try to keep up.

So, the mule would not have been induced, but maybe the burro?
I'm starting to think I've been had.

What was induced was the mule, not the labor. It was induced by
breeding. Whether the labor needed to be induced or not does not
matter even a little bit.

What was the mule induced to do, specifically?
How was the mule induced, specifically?
Keeping in mind a valid defination of induced.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/induced

If you don't understand how breeding works, this is hardly the place
to enlighten you. Besides, George has a well known phobia about
equine sexual activity. If you're really curious, there are several
videos on YouTube that show the process in action.

Having bread and raised rabbits for 15 years, I'm well versed in this.
I'm not at all interested in the "Inter-species Erotica" you view on
YouTube.

What I have been curious is your understanding of the subject. You have
been very coy and evasive in not answering my simple questions.

You obviously have been caught not knowing that mules are sterile
hybreds, and don't want to admit to it.

BTW, in rabbit breeding we eat our mistakes.

Doug

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

And the mother would not have been a mule, probably. Again, try to keep up.

So, the mule would not have been induced, but maybe the burro?
I'm starting to think I've been had.

What was induced was the mule, not the labor. It was induced by
breeding. Whether the labor needed to be induced or not does not
matter even a little bit.

What was the mule induced to do, specifically?
How was the mule induced, specifically?
Keeping in mind a valid defination of induced.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/induced

If you don't understand how breeding works, this is hardly the place
to enlighten you. Besides, George has a well known phobia about
equine sexual activity. If you're really curious, there are several
videos on YouTube that show the process in action.

Having bread and raised rabbits for 15 years, I'm well versed in this.
I'm not at all interested in the "Inter-species Erotica" you view on
YouTube.
What I have been curious is your understanding of the subject. You have
been very coy and evasive in not answering my simple questions.
You obviously have been caught not knowing that mules are sterile
hybreds, and don't want to admit to it.

I can't help it if you don't understand that breeding is a way to induce
animals, and it does not matter even a little bit if the animals, once
induced, are sterile or fertile. Your problem, not mine.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by DYM

Post by Amy Blankenship
The thing that was being induced was the mule itself. Try to keep up!

In my experience, when labor is induced, it is the mother that is given the
shot, not the fetus. It is the mother that is induced to give birth.

And the mother would not have been a mule, probably. Again, try to keep up.

So, the mule would not have been induced, but maybe the burro?
I'm starting to think I've been had.

PS in such a case, the mule would be what was had. I see where you're
heading with this admission... ;-)

[John David Galt]

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring

You misspelled "Previously Unmet Demand".

California has a 30+ year backlog of freeway construction to catch up on,
and there's no better time to get started than right now.

[Scott en Aztlán]

Post by John David Galt

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring

You misspelled "Previously Unmet Demand".

You're being disingenuous. It's not unmet demand if the people didn't
live in the area until AFTER the freeway was built. If they moved to a
town on the new end of the freeway after the freeway is built, that is
NEW demand.

[george conklin]

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Post by John David Galt

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring

You misspelled "Previously Unmet Demand".

You're being disingenuous. It's not unmet demand if the people didn't
live in the area until AFTER the freeway was built. If they moved to a
town on the new end of the freeway after the freeway is built, that is
NEW demand.

You can't push on a string. If you build a road in the middle of
nowhere, it will not be used. There is no induced demand. There is pentup
demand for sure. Railroads let people move about, which upset the elites,
just like you are upset if people use roads. You should move to UK and join
the snobs.

[Brent P]

Post by george conklin
Railroads let people move about, which upset the elites,
just like you are upset if people use roads.

And that's the force behind carbon taxes, congestion taxes, etc and so
forth to stop the common people from moving about. That's why we see the
UK's royal family etc 'paying' for carbon offsets or whatever it is they
are doing. It's no big deal to them and never will be, but it's to drive
it so everyone has to do it and in the then, it will only be elites like
them who can afford it.

[george conklin]

Post by Brent P

Post by george conklin
Railroads let people move about, which upset the elites,
just like you are upset if people use roads.

And that's the force behind carbon taxes, congestion taxes, etc and so
forth to stop the common people from moving about. That's why we see the
UK's royal family etc 'paying' for carbon offsets or whatever it is they
are doing. It's no big deal to them and never will be, but it's to drive
it so everyone has to do it and in the then, it will only be elites like
them who can afford it.

History does repeat itself, it seems. We just use different excuses to
protect the rich.

[Pat]

Post by george conklin

Post by Scott en Aztlán

Post by John David Galt

Post by Scott en Aztlán
And some people claim that Induced Traffic is a myth. Only an idiot
would believe that when the irrefutable proof is right here, staring

You misspelled "Previously Unmet Demand".

You're being disingenuous. It's not unmet demand if the people didn't
live in the area until AFTER the freeway was built. If they moved to a
town on the new end of the freeway after the freeway is built, that is
NEW demand.

You can't push on a string. If you build a road in the middle of
nowhere, it will not be used. There is no induced demand. There is pentup
demand for sure. Railroads let people move about, which upset the elites,
just like you are upset if people use roads. You should move to UK and join
the snobs.

I'm not sure "induced demand" is the best phrase, but you can had
additional roadway use merely because of roadway improvements. Two
examples:

I have a Walmart 30 miles to the north, 25 miles to the east and 25
miles to the south. Normally I go to the one to the east because I'm
doing other things nearby at the same time. But the roads are better,
going south. So if I have nothing else to do, I do to the south. I
seldom go to the north. However, they are now upgrading US219 to an
expressway. It will also shorten the route to about 25 miles. Once
that road is completed (in a few years), it makes it likely that I
will go to that store more often because the trip is the same as to
the others. That will change my road usage. It will also change my
road usage to going east across NYS because it will make that road the
fastest way east (instead of a bunch of local roads for the first 60
miles). It will not cause me to make an additional trips, but it may
cause me to make more trips on that road (new 219 v. old 219).

As for the road to nowhere, even that will get good usage if it
connects two "somewheres". Look at US80 through PA. Not much along
the way, but Philly/NYC on the east the Pittsburgh on the west.

Also, if there are exits along the road to nowhere, it will change
development patterns and create new housing or retail or something
along the way -- at least for the first 1/2 to 1 hour out from a major
hub. It could create new suburbs, so to speak. Remember, at one time
the LIE was a road to nowhere.

I'm not sure "induced demand" is a good term, but it will suffice
until something better comes along. Agreed, it is not "pushing on a
string" but it is creating new opportunities for people to take
advantage of, if they choose to.

[RJ]

Post by Pat
I'm not sure "induced demand" is a good term, but it will suffice
until something better comes along.

No, it won't do. It is misleading.

[Pat]

Post by RJ

Post by Pat
I'm not sure "induced demand" is a good term, but it will suffice
until something better comes along.

No, it won't do. It is misleading.

Fine, whatever. Please propose a better term.

[george conklin]

"Pat" <***@artisticphotography.us> wrote in message news:***@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

I'm not sure "induced demand" is a good term, but it will suffice
until something better comes along. Agreed, it is not "pushing on a
string" but it is creating new opportunities for people to take
advantage of, if they choose to.
------

There has to be demand somehwere. Bring 30 years behind in road
building, there is a huge amount of pentup demand.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Pat
I'm not sure "induced demand" is a good term, but it will suffice
until something better comes along. Agreed, it is not "pushing on a
string" but it is creating new opportunities for people to take
advantage of, if they choose to.
------
There has to be demand somehwere. Bring 30 years behind in road
building, there is a huge amount of pentup demand.

If induced demand did not exist, neither would advertising.

[george conklin]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Pat
I'm not sure "induced demand" is a good term, but it will suffice
until something better comes along. Agreed, it is not "pushing on a
string" but it is creating new opportunities for people to take
advantage of, if they choose to.
------
There has to be demand somehwere. Bring 30 years behind in road
building, there is a huge amount of pentup demand.

If induced demand did not exist, neither would advertising.

Both are myth makers designed to mislead the public.