parking for big truck, RVs, trailers in urban setting

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

drydem

2008-08-21 10:45:23 UTC

I would like your opinion on the following:

For non emergency vehicles, how would you handle
overnight or long term/regular persistent parking
for big trucks (e.g. dump trucks, cranes, cherry pickers),
Recreational Vehicles ( e.g. winnebagos, camping trailers)
Trailers (e.g. tractor trailers for Fedex, Exxon tanker, car
carrier, flatbed with construction materials) in an urban/city
environment? Why?

Thanks.

Walter

Pat

2008-08-21 13:54:09 UTC

Permalink

Post by drydem
For non emergency vehicles, how would you handle
overnight or long term/regular persistent parking
for big trucks (e.g. dump trucks, cranes, cherry pickers),
Recreational Vehicles ( e.g. winnebagos, camping trailers)
Trailers (e.g. tractor trailers for Fedex, Exxon tanker, car
carrier, flatbed with construction materials) in an urban/city
environment? Why?
Thanks.
Walter

There isn't enough info here to answer your question -- and to a large
extent, the "how would you" part of the question is dependent on who
the "you" is.

If I were a truck driver or owned a camper, I'd say "let me park
anywhere".

As for commercial trucks like dump trucks, generally they stay at
their company overnight. Tractor trailers are either in yards or
truck stops.

Campers for transients are generally corralled in Walmart parking
lots.

If you are having a problem, what you are seeing is a symptom, not the
problem itself. Nobody wants to park a tractor trailer on the
street. If they are doing that, that means the government is failing
to provide adequate parking for them that isn't on the street.

Clark F Morris

2008-08-21 16:25:13 UTC

Permalink

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat

There isn't enough info here to answer your question -- and to a large
extent, the "how would you" part of the question is dependent on who
the "you" is.
If I were a truck driver or owned a camper, I'd say "let me park
anywhere".
As for commercial trucks like dump trucks, generally they stay at
their company overnight. Tractor trailers are either in yards or
truck stops.
Campers for transients are generally corralled in Walmart parking
lots.
If you are having a problem, what you are seeing is a symptom, not the
problem itself. Nobody wants to park a tractor trailer on the
street. If they are doing that, that means the government is failing
to provide adequate parking for them that isn't on the street.

Why should government provide the parking? If it does it should be at
a profit to the government.

Pat

2008-08-21 17:54:24 UTC

Permalink

Post by Clark F Morris
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat

There isn't enough info here to answer your question -- and to a large
extent, the "how would you" part of the question is dependent on who
the "you" is.
If I were a truck driver or owned a camper, I'd say "let me park
anywhere".
As for commercial trucks like dump trucks, generally they stay at
their company overnight. Tractor trailers are either in yards or
truck stops.
Campers for transients are generally corralled in Walmart parking
lots.
If you are having a problem, what you are seeing is a symptom, not the
problem itself. Nobody wants to park a tractor trailer on the
street. If they are doing that, that means the government is failing
to provide adequate parking for them that isn't on the street.

Why should government provide the parking? If it does it should be at
a profit to the government.

They don't necessarily need to own it, but they need to make sure it
exists. Otherwise, they can't bitch about cars/trucks on the street.

For things like apartments, they require you to put in adequate
parking -- adequate being a local definition. That keeps "too many"
cars off of the street. In places like Manhattan, there might not be
any parking requirements because relatively few people own cars; but
if you don't require parking, you zone out parking lots, and don't
issue taxi permits; then the gov't can't bitch about illegal parking
and such cuz they created the situation. So, maybe I should have said
"provide for" instead of "provide".

Clark F Morris

2008-08-22 13:56:55 UTC

Permalink

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:54:24 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat

Post by Clark F Morris
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat

There isn't enough info here to answer your question -- and to a large
extent, the "how would you" part of the question is dependent on who
the "you" is.
If I were a truck driver or owned a camper, I'd say "let me park
anywhere".
As for commercial trucks like dump trucks, generally they stay at
their company overnight. Tractor trailers are either in yards or
truck stops.
Campers for transients are generally corralled in Walmart parking
lots.
If you are having a problem, what you are seeing is a symptom, not the
problem itself. Nobody wants to park a tractor trailer on the
street. If they are doing that, that means the government is failing
to provide adequate parking for them that isn't on the street.

Why should government provide the parking? If it does it should be at
a profit to the government.

They don't necessarily need to own it, but they need to make sure it
exists. Otherwise, they can't bitch about cars/trucks on the street.
For things like apartments, they require you to put in adequate
parking -- adequate being a local definition. That keeps "too many"
cars off of the street. In places like Manhattan, there might not be
any parking requirements because relatively few people own cars; but
if you don't require parking, you zone out parking lots, and don't
issue taxi permits; then the gov't can't bitch about illegal parking
and such cuz they created the situation. So, maybe I should have said
"provide for" instead of "provide".

Industrial parks and areas zoned for commercial (warehousing, etc.)
should have enough truck parking. I see no need for provision in
residential areas. RV's, etc. should be provided for by the owner in
the home area and the owner should look for places that welcome them
on the road. For the latter I see no need for government
intervention.

drydem

2008-08-28 01:10:13 UTC

Permalink

Post by Pat

Post by Clark F Morris
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat

There isn't enough info here to answer your question -- and to a large
extent, the "how would you" part of the question is dependent on who
the "you" is.
If I were a truck driver or owned a camper, I'd say "let me park
anywhere".
As for commercial trucks like dump trucks, generally they stay at
their company overnight. Tractor trailers are either in yards or
truck stops.
Campers for transients are generally corralled in Walmart parking
lots.
If you are having a problem, what you are seeing is a symptom, not the
problem itself. Nobody wants to park a tractor trailer on the
street. If they are doing that, that means the government is failing
to provide adequate parking for them that isn't on the street.

Why should government provide the parking? If it does it should be at
a profit to the government.

They don't necessarily need to own it, but they need to make sure it
exists. Otherwise, they can't bitch about cars/trucks on the street.
For things like apartments, they require you to put in adequate
parking -- adequate being a local definition. That keeps "too many"
cars off of the street. In places like Manhattan, there might not be
any parking requirements because relatively few people own cars; but
if you don't require parking, you zone out parking lots, and don't
issue taxi permits; then the gov't can't bitch about illegal parking
and such cuz they created the situation. So, maybe I should have said
"provide for" instead of "provide".- Hide quoted text -

Currently, our local zoning ordinanes have a requirement
for adequate parking because unlike NYC we don't
have an extensive subway system. In my community,
less than three percent work within the community
( a radius of 3 miles) and more than 99 percent of the
community commutes and shops by motorized
vehicle. There are also some who drive a tractor-trailers,
commerical delivery trucks, and dump trucks.

The issue is that as my local government
struggles to craft *smart growth* policies - they
must find a way to provide adequate parking capacity.
However, when parking capacity uses the side street
as part of the equation for having adequate parking,
on-street parking capacity is diminished when a one
large vehicle uses multiple parking spaces.

Another challenge for smart growth/new urbanism
advocates is that their proposals for using narrower roads/lanes
would makes parking and manuevering more difficult
and hazardous for certain types of vehicles, e.g. ladder
fire truck or a tractor-trailer.

.

Pat

2008-08-28 03:20:02 UTC

Permalink

Post by drydem

Post by Pat

Post by Clark F Morris
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat

There isn't enough info here to answer your question -- and to a large
extent, the "how would you" part of the question is dependent on who
the "you" is.
If I were a truck driver or owned a camper, I'd say "let me park
anywhere".
As for commercial trucks like dump trucks, generally they stay at
their company overnight. Tractor trailers are either in yards or
truck stops.
Campers for transients are generally corralled in Walmart parking
lots.
If you are having a problem, what you are seeing is a symptom, not the
problem itself. Nobody wants to park a tractor trailer on the
street. If they are doing that, that means the government is failing
to provide adequate parking for them that isn't on the street.

Why should government provide the parking? If it does it should be at
a profit to the government.

They don't necessarily need to own it, but they need to make sure it
exists. Otherwise, they can't bitch about cars/trucks on the street.
For things like apartments, they require you to put in adequate
parking -- adequate being a local definition. That keeps "too many"
cars off of the street. In places like Manhattan, there might not be
any parking requirements because relatively few people own cars; but
if you don't require parking, you zone out parking lots, and don't
issue taxi permits; then the gov't can't bitch about illegal parking
and such cuz they created the situation. So, maybe I should have said
"provide for" instead of "provide".- Hide quoted text -

Currently, our local zoning ordinanes have a requirement
for adequate parking because unlike NYC we don't
have an extensive subway system. In my community,
less than three percent work within the community
( a radius of 3 miles) and more than 99 percent of the
community commutes and shops by motorized
vehicle. There are also some who drive a tractor-trailers,
commerical delivery trucks, and dump trucks.
The issue is that as my local government
struggles to craft *smart growth* policies - they
must find a way to provide adequate parking capacity.
However, when parking capacity uses the side street
as part of the equation for having adequate parking,
on-street parking capacity is diminished when a one
large vehicle uses multiple parking spaces.
Another challenge for smart growth/new urbanism
advocates is that their proposals for using narrower roads/lanes
would makes parking and manuevering more difficult
and hazardous for certain types of vehicles, e.g. ladder
fire truck or a tractor-trailer.
.

Speaking of fire trucks, the funniest thing happened this weekend. At
a football game, a kid got hurt. He injured his leg (this isn't the
funny part). They brought out the ambulance and put the kid into it.
They then pulled the ambulance up through the emergency lane they they
maintain just for such incidents. Then the ambulance stopped and sat
their for a while. Soon, the PA announcer said "Would the {name of
community} police please move their car so the ambulance can leave".
That was followed by lots of hooting and hollering.

This is the same police department that was on a scene and had to go
somewhere. They moved a sheriff's car to get out. They parked it on
the rail road tracks. Do I have to finish ... yes of course ... well,
a train came by and let's just say there was one less sheriff's car.

As for fire trucks, we're seeing lots of site plans that require a
continuous route for a fire truck. They don't want to back them up.
In one place, where another driveway would have been awkward and used
all of the green space, they allowed some sort of open-weave pavers
under the topsoil so that it would be green, but it would still
support the fire truck. I don't know, I can't figure out why they
can't "mon back mon" them.

I think most communities just ban parking trucks in residential areas
and leave it at that. If it's a problem, you should allow (within the
zoning) for adequate parking lots for trucks. Let the private sector
handle it. There was just an article about a guy in NYC who they shut
down his truck parking lot. It was devastating for the truckers.
Okay, so the guy didn't own the land .. but what's the problem? Okay,
so he was renting out city- and state-owned land ... but they weren't
using it.

I can't think of any codes that address truck parking in residential
areas. Usually, it's just truck parking as part of site-plan review
to ensure the lot meets standards (often, fenced).

George Conklin

2008-08-28 14:29:45 UTC

Permalink

Post by Pat

Post by drydem

Post by Pat

Post by Clark F Morris
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat

There isn't enough info here to answer your question -- and to a large
extent, the "how would you" part of the question is dependent on who
the "you" is.
If I were a truck driver or owned a camper, I'd say "let me park
anywhere".
As for commercial trucks like dump trucks, generally they stay at
their company overnight. Tractor trailers are either in yards or
truck stops.
Campers for transients are generally corralled in Walmart parking
lots.
If you are having a problem, what you are seeing is a symptom, not the
problem itself. Nobody wants to park a tractor trailer on the
street. If they are doing that, that means the government is failing
to provide adequate parking for them that isn't on the street.

Why should government provide the parking? If it does it should be at
a profit to the government.

They don't necessarily need to own it, but they need to make sure it
exists. Otherwise, they can't bitch about cars/trucks on the street.
For things like apartments, they require you to put in adequate
parking -- adequate being a local definition. That keeps "too many"
cars off of the street. In places like Manhattan, there might not be
any parking requirements because relatively few people own cars; but
if you don't require parking, you zone out parking lots, and don't
issue taxi permits; then the gov't can't bitch about illegal parking
and such cuz they created the situation. So, maybe I should have said
"provide for" instead of "provide".- Hide quoted text -

Currently, our local zoning ordinanes have a requirement
for adequate parking because unlike NYC we don't
have an extensive subway system. In my community,
less than three percent work within the community
( a radius of 3 miles) and more than 99 percent of the
community commutes and shops by motorized
vehicle. There are also some who drive a tractor-trailers,
commerical delivery trucks, and dump trucks.
The issue is that as my local government
struggles to craft *smart growth* policies - they
must find a way to provide adequate parking capacity.
However, when parking capacity uses the side street
as part of the equation for having adequate parking,
on-street parking capacity is diminished when a one
large vehicle uses multiple parking spaces.
Another challenge for smart growth/new urbanism
advocates is that their proposals for using narrower roads/lanes
would makes parking and manuevering more difficult
and hazardous for certain types of vehicles, e.g. ladder
fire truck or a tractor-trailer.
.

Speaking of fire trucks, the funniest thing happened this weekend. At
a football game, a kid got hurt. He injured his leg (this isn't the
funny part). They brought out the ambulance and put the kid into it.
They then pulled the ambulance up through the emergency lane they they
maintain just for such incidents. Then the ambulance stopped and sat
their for a while. Soon, the PA announcer said "Would the {name of
community} police please move their car so the ambulance can leave".
That was followed by lots of hooting and hollering.
This is the same police department that was on a scene and had to go
somewhere. They moved a sheriff's car to get out. They parked it on
the rail road tracks. Do I have to finish ... yes of course ... well,
a train came by and let's just say there was one less sheriff's car.
As for fire trucks, we're seeing lots of site plans that require a
continuous route for a fire truck. They don't want to back them up.
In one place, where another driveway would have been awkward and used
all of the green space, they allowed some sort of open-weave pavers
under the topsoil so that it would be green, but it would still
support the fire truck. I don't know, I can't figure out why they
can't "mon back mon" them.
I think most communities just ban parking trucks in residential areas
and leave it at that. If it's a problem, you should allow (within the
zoning) for adequate parking lots for trucks. Let the private sector
handle it. There was just an article about a guy in NYC who they shut
down his truck parking lot. It was devastating for the truckers.
Okay, so the guy didn't own the land .. but what's the problem? Okay,
so he was renting out city- and state-owned land ... but they weren't
using it.
I can't think of any codes that address truck parking in residential
areas. Usually, it's just truck parking as part of site-plan review
to ensure the lot meets standards (often, fenced).

Now that the post office wants dense urban areas to have street-side
mailboxes, a new problem is developing. Not only does not eliminate street
parking for the resident, it also means that city laws have not kept up.
Example: someone parked in front of my mailbox for several days, meaning no
mail delivery. The carrier just states, "blocked." But city law does NOT
ban that practice, since the city assumed that the mailman would simply
deliver mail to a mail slot on the front door, as in 1920. Federal law bans
blocking mailboxes, but city cops do NOT enforce Federal law!!! The car
was a Plymouth with plates from a Lexus, but even then the city cops let it
ride.

Amy Blankenship

2008-08-28 14:42:06 UTC

Permalink

Post by George Conklin
Now that the post office wants dense urban areas to have street-side
mailboxes, a new problem is developing. Not only does not eliminate street
parking for the resident, it also means that city laws have not kept up.
Example: someone parked in front of my mailbox for several days, meaning no
mail delivery. The carrier just states, "blocked." But city law does NOT
ban that practice, since the city assumed that the mailman would simply
deliver mail to a mail slot on the front door, as in 1920. Federal law bans
blocking mailboxes, but city cops do NOT enforce Federal law!!! The car
was a Plymouth with plates from a Lexus, but even then the city cops let it
ride.

You have keys, don't you? ;-)

George Conklin

2008-08-28 14:25:18 UTC

Permalink

Post by Pat

Post by Clark F Morris
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT), Pat

Post by Pat

There isn't enough info here to answer your question -- and to a large
extent, the "how would you" part of the question is dependent on who
the "you" is.
If I were a truck driver or owned a camper, I'd say "let me park
anywhere".
As for commercial trucks like dump trucks, generally they stay at
their company overnight. Tractor trailers are either in yards or
truck stops.
Campers for transients are generally corralled in Walmart parking
lots.
If you are having a problem, what you are seeing is a symptom, not the
problem itself. Nobody wants to park a tractor trailer on the
street. If they are doing that, that means the government is failing
to provide adequate parking for them that isn't on the street.

Why should government provide the parking? If it does it should be at
a profit to the government.

They don't necessarily need to own it, but they need to make sure it
exists. Otherwise, they can't bitch about cars/trucks on the street.
For things like apartments, they require you to put in adequate
parking -- adequate being a local definition. That keeps "too many"
cars off of the street. In places like Manhattan, there might not be
any parking requirements because relatively few people own cars; but
if you don't require parking, you zone out parking lots, and don't
issue taxi permits; then the gov't can't bitch about illegal parking
and such cuz they created the situation. So, maybe I should have said
"provide for" instead of "provide".- Hide quoted text -