Where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters and sidewalks

[ComandanteBanana]

Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...

NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.

That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
gutters and sidewalks.

BIKE FOR PEACE
(T-shirts and more)
http://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

[Roger Zoul]

You're just an amazing dumbass.

Post by ComandanteBanana
Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...
NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.
That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
gutters and sidewalks.
BIKE FOR PEACE
(T-shirts and more)
http://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

[donquijote1954]

Post by Roger Zoul
You're just an amazing dumbass.

Post by ComandanteBanana
Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...
NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.
That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
gutters and sidewalks.
BIKE FOR PEACE
(T-shirts and more)
http://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry to be such a pain in the ass. Just like Jesus was to Rome. He
rode a donkey to challenge the mighty empire. And then he was
crucified... And no more Jesus. ;)

I think I'll take a break. No more confrontation with the beast for a
while. Too dangerous. Besides I don't believe in turning the other
cheek.

[donquijote1954]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
its bridges!

Ummm, if the rules say no riding on the bridge, then the lanes are probably
too narrow for cars to pass you safely. Are you seriously saying that you're
being treated like a second class citizen because you're expected to follow
the rules? Do you really think that you should be allowed to ride in the
road when cars cannot safely pass? If so, then you're begging to be hit, or
you think you should be allowed to inconvenience all the people in cars who
will be unable to pass you while on the bridge. I only ride on the bike
path, since all the roads here are FAR too busy. What's wrong with you?

Sorry, but you should have asked how many lanes there were and how
much traffic there was before you sided with Goliath...

There were two lanes each way, with only light traffic. Saturday
morning, remember? It's bicycle day out there, kind of.

But, YES, I'm stating cyclists in America are second class citizens.
Worse, it's not only their dignity, but their own survival that is
threaten.

I was first TAKING THE LANE (sitting wherever I want in the bus) and
the police waved me to move over. Other cyclists were either walking
their bikes or riding them on the sidewalk, meaning they were OK in
the eyes of the police. ("Do what you want, just don't bother cars.")

Second I was blasted by another vehicle while still taking the lane.
And then the third incident came when I moved to the right, but the
guy thought I didn't have the right to be there either.

Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.

[Jack May]

Post by donquijote1954
Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.

It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the Darwin
prize is not smart.

[Eric Vey]

Post by Jack May

Post by donquijote1954
Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.

It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the Darwin
prize is not smart.

When gas gets expensive enough, even Jack will be walking. His whole
outlook will change. Right now, only "poor" people walk and get mown
down by drivers, but wealth is relative.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Eric Vey

Post by Jack May

Post by donquijote1954
Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.

It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the
Darwin prize is not smart.

When gas gets expensive enough, even Jack will be walking. His whole
outlook will change. Right now, only "poor" people walk and get mown
down by drivers, but wealth is relative.

Especially when Jack's job is sent to someone in India who makes $10K US
per year. ;)

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by Eric Vey

Post by Jack May

Post by donquijote1954
Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.

It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the
Darwin prize is not smart.

When gas gets expensive enough, even Jack will be walking. His whole
outlook will change. Right now, only "poor" people walk and get mown
down by drivers, but wealth is relative.

Didn't we read some days back in the trike thread, that he IS A CYCLIST?
T.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by Eric Vey

Post by Jack May

Post by donquijote1954
Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.

It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the
Darwin prize is not smart.

When gas gets expensive enough, even Jack will be walking. His whole
outlook will change. Right now, only "poor" people walk and get mown
down by drivers, but wealth is relative.

Didn't we read some days back in the trike thread, that he IS A CYCLIST?
T.

Only for recreation on the MUPs.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by donquijote1954
Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.

It's an evolution game where the smart survive.   Trying to win the Darwin
prize is not smart.

Since it's usually the case that the cylists are more fit than the
drivers, this is a rare case of "survival of the fattest over the
fittest."

I guess common in SOCIAL DARWINISM though.

[ComandanteBanana]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:06:42 -0700 (PDT), donquijote1954

Post by donquijote1954
Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.

Evidently you have never heard the phrase "Right or Dead Right"
Might want to ponder on that one for a bit.

Yep, and I have changed my survival strategy accordingly.

I have realized that America, despite her claims to democracy and
Christianity, is now ruled by the Law of the Jungle. The world seems
to know it now too. It's evident in her foreign policies that she's
getting hungrier. And it's even more clear when you live inside and
you notice that the top predators want to have an SUV to show their
power and wealth --if not to impose their might...

However dinosaurs are not forever. Actually, the hungrier they get,
the quicker they exhaust the resources, and the quicker they
disappear. But they were not known for having big brains either.

Someone may ponder about that too.

[Pat]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by ComandanteBanana
Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
its bridges!

Ummm, if the rules say no riding on the bridge, then the lanes are probably
too narrow for cars to pass you safely. Are you seriously saying that you're
being treated like a second class citizen because you're expected to follow
the rules? Do you really think that you should be allowed to ride in the
road when cars cannot safely pass? If so, then you're begging to be hit, or
you think you should be allowed to inconvenience all the people in cars who
will be unable to pass you while on the bridge. I only ride on the bike
path, since all the roads here are FAR too busy. What's wrong with you?

Sorry, but you should have asked how many lanes there were and how
much traffic there was before you sided with Goliath...
There were two lanes each way, with only light traffic. Saturday
morning, remember? It's bicycle day out there, kind of.
But, YES, I'm stating cyclists in America are second class citizens.
Worse, it's not only their dignity, but their own survival that is
threaten.
I was first TAKING THE LANE (sitting wherever I want in the bus) and
the police waved me to move over. Other cyclists were either walking
their bikes or riding them on the sidewalk, meaning they were OK in
the eyes of the police. ("Do what you want, just don't bother cars.")
Second I was blasted by another vehicle while still taking the lane.
And then the third incident came when I moved to the right, but the
guy thought I didn't have the right to be there either.
Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

As I've said before, if you get all of those problems, look within.
Others were walking for a reason -- what you were doing was unsafe.

If you can't keep up to road speed, get off the road or you'll get
killed. If you can keep up with traffic, you wouldn't have the
problems.

It's not the bike that people dislike, it's the speed you're going.
Get over the whole bike thing and look within.

[Bill Sornson]

Post by Pat
If you can't keep up to road speed, get off the road or you'll get
killed.

Moronic POTW.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Bill Sornson

Post by Pat
If you can't keep up to road speed, get off the road or you'll get
killed.

Moronic POTW.

OMG - I agree with Sorni!

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by Pat
If you can't keep up to road speed, get off the road or you'll get
killed. If you can keep up with traffic, you wouldn't have the
problems.
It's not the bike that people dislike, it's the speed you're going.
Get over the whole bike thing and look within.

Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
"banana" boy.

No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
claim. No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.

All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
rate from bicycling is infinitesmal. There are roughly fifteen
million miles ridden between bike fatalities. People who cycle
regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists. Many
researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
traffic.

Pat, get over the self-centered motorist thing. The roads are NOT
intended for only the uses you prefer. Slow down, share the road.
The few seconds it takes you to get past a bicyclist will not change
your life. You're not going to use that time to save the world.

Jack, the Darwin award should go to the bulk of the population that
sits on fat asses in oversized vehicles and prepares for early heart
attack. It has nothing to do with people keeping themselves healthy
by safe, healthy exercise. Your remark on evolution shows a dismal
lack of science understanding. Quit posting from a position of
ignorance.

Donquijote/comandante banana, quit your obnoxious whining. If you're
too much of a wimp to ride without whining, leave us alone and do
something else.

To all three: Sorry, I usually try not to be so harsh. But massive
ignorance becomes grating after a while.

- Frank Krygowski

[Pat]

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by Pat
If you can't keep up to road speed, get off the road or you'll get
killed.  If you can keep up with traffic, you wouldn't have the
problems.
It's not the bike that people dislike, it's the speed you're going.
Get over the whole bike thing and look within.

Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
"banana" boy.
No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
claim.  No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.
All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
rate from bicycling is infinitesmal.  There are roughly fifteen
million miles ridden between bike fatalities.  People who cycle
regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists.  Many
researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
traffic.
Pat, get over the self-centered motorist thing.  The roads are NOT
intended for only the uses you prefer.  Slow down, share the road.
The few seconds it takes you to get past a bicyclist will not change
your life.  You're not going to use that time to save the world.
Jack, the Darwin award should go to the bulk of the population that
sits on fat asses in oversized vehicles and prepares for early heart
attack.  It has nothing to do with people keeping themselves healthy
by safe, healthy exercise.  Your remark on evolution shows a dismal
lack of science understanding.  Quit posting from a position of
ignorance.
Donquijote/comandante banana, quit your obnoxious whining.  If you're
too much of a wimp to ride without whining, leave us alone and do
something else.
To all three:  Sorry, I usually try not to be so harsh.  But massive
ignorance becomes grating after a while.
- Frank Krygowski

You missed my point. I don't think that biking is particularly
dangerous and I don't care if anyone does it. But donquijote
constantly complains how dangerious it is and how he takes his life
into his hands every time he gets on a bike because he thinks SUVs are
aiming for him. I think that if he feels that way, or if cars are
really endangering him, then HE is doing something wrong and he needs
to look at it. In the example he gives, he is on a bridge and other
bikers decide to walk or take precautionary measures but he decides
not to and then complains how he almost go runned over. Well, he
needs to look within. It ain't the bike that's causing his problems.

I ride a motorcycle and I often say that if you ride like you're
scared and hesitant, bad things will happen to you. If you ride with
confidence and control (and you ride in a predictable manner), then
you cut down on the odds of having something bad happening.

I think the odds of something bad happening to the average biker is
quite low. I think the odds of something bad happening to dq is
pretty high, but it's his own doing.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by Pat
If you can't keep up to road speed, get off the road or you'll get
killed.  If you can keep up with traffic, you wouldn't have the
problems.
It's not the bike that people dislike, it's the speed you're going.
Get over the whole bike thing and look within.

Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
"banana" boy.
No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
claim.  No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.
All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
rate from bicycling is infinitesmal.  There are roughly fifteen
million miles ridden between bike fatalities.  People who cycle
regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists.  Many
researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
traffic.
Pat, get over the self-centered motorist thing.  The roads are NOT
intended for only the uses you prefer.  Slow down, share the road.
The few seconds it takes you to get past a bicyclist will not change
your life.  You're not going to use that time to save the world.
Jack, the Darwin award should go to the bulk of the population that
sits on fat asses in oversized vehicles and prepares for early heart
attack.  It has nothing to do with people keeping themselves healthy
by safe, healthy exercise.  Your remark on evolution shows a dismal
lack of science understanding.  Quit posting from a position of
ignorance.
Donquijote/comandante banana, quit your obnoxious whining.  If you're
too much of a wimp to ride without whining, leave us alone and do
something else.
To all three:  Sorry, I usually try not to be so harsh.  But massive
ignorance becomes grating after a while.
- Frank Krygowski

You missed my point.  I don't think that biking is particularly
dangerous and I don't care if anyone does it.  But donquijote
constantly complains how dangerious it is and how he takes his life
into his hands every time he gets on a bike because he thinks SUVs are
aiming for him.  I think that if he feels that way, or if cars are
really endangering him, then HE is doing something wrong and he needs
to look at it.  In the example he gives, he is on a bridge and other
bikers decide to walk or take precautionary measures but he decides
not to and then complains how he almost go runned over.  Well, he
needs to look within.  It ain't the bike that's causing his problems.
I ride a motorcycle and I often say that if you ride like you're
scared and hesitant, bad things will happen to you.  If you ride with
confidence and control (and you ride in a predictable manner), then
you cut down on the odds of having something bad happening.
I think the odds of something bad happening to the average biker is
quite low.  I think the odds of something bad happening to dq is
pretty high, but it's his own doing.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Though you are usually dimwitted, you have made an interesting
point. :)

The SPEED DIFFERENTIAL puts me at odds with traffic, which I
experience on the bicycle and not on a scooter or motorcycle. That's
the reason I suggest LANE DISCIPLINE, where the right lane is kept at
a 20MPH limit. Actually the whole road may move faster that way since
the faster vehicles overtake on the left and don't have the need to
zigzag and put others at risk.

Priority #1 when the revolution comes.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by Pat
If you can't keep up to road speed, get off the road or you'll get
killed.  If you can keep up with traffic, you wouldn't have the
problems.
It's not the bike that people dislike, it's the speed you're going.
Get over the whole bike thing and look within.

Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
"banana" boy.

DonQuijote and ComandanteBanana are the same thing. Only that when one
account gets saturated I use the other. (I think I'm a little more
clever under DonQuijote though. ComandanteBanana is more like a jungle
leader, very appropriate for dealing with traffic.)

Post by f***@gmail.com
No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
claim.  No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.
All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
rate from bicycling is infinitesmal.  There are roughly fifteen
million miles ridden between bike fatalities.  People who cycle
regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists.  Many
researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
traffic.

Man, you need to go in the jungle more often... "Riding a bicycle in
peak-hour traffic is at best harrowing, and at worst downright
treacherous." The predators are everywhere... "Driving really seems to
bring out the animal in us; put an otherwise considerate and socially
adapted person in a metal cage and stick them into peak hour traffic
and you'll see them shout, swear and punish other road users in ways
they'd never dream of in a social situation." You are the bottom of
the food chain... "Size is everything; trucks intimidate 4WDs, who
muscle out compact cars. Commuting motorcyclists learn quickly to be
hyper-vigilant around anything with 4 wheels - but even their lot
can't compare to the vulnerability of bicycle riders, who travel much
slower than the speed limit, are able to own very little road space,
and typically wear only the bare minimum of protective gear." Hey, but
you may learn to use some camouflage and pretend to be from the
opposite gender... "Furthermore, Dr. Walker wore a long wig on some
trials to see if perceived gender had any effect on overtaking
distances. It certainly did - drivers gave him an average 14cm more
room." It's fascinating to know how the power games are played in the
jungle... "Perhaps, as the vehicle size data suggests, drivers simply
see overtaking a cyclist as an opportunity to stamp their road
authority on a weaker, more vulnerable competitor for tarmac space."
COMPETITION IS NOT ALLOWED, says the lion.

I'm NOT saying though that we should avoid the predators and become
couch potatoes. What I'm saying is that WE MUST GET ORGANIZED if we
want to come out from the back alleys, gutters and sidewalks.

And it's all science...

Bicycle helmets - a road safety hazard?

May 14, 2007 A British scientist has proved that wearing a bicycle
helmet actually exposes cyclists to further risk. Overtaking traffic
passed helmeted cyclists with significantly less room than unhelmeted
cyclists - and the bigger the vehicle, the closer the average passing
distance was. As civilised as we pretend to be elsewhere, we
consistently act like might is right on our roads.

Road psychology is fascinating. Driving really seems to bring out the
animal in us; put an otherwise considerate and socially adapted person
in a metal cage and stick them into peak hour traffic and you'll see
them shout, swear and punish other road users in ways they'd never
dream of in a social situation. It's mankind at its prmitive worst;
the thinnest point in our fragile veneer of civilisation, where the
law of the jungle underpins our actions and social conventions go out
the window.

Size is everything; trucks intimidate 4WDs, who muscle out compact
cars. Commuting motorcyclists learn quickly to be hyper-vigilant
around anything with 4 wheels - but even their lot can't compare to
the vulnerability of bicycle riders, who travel much slower than the
speed limit, are able to own very little road space, and typically
wear only the bare minimum of protective gear.

Riding a bicycle in peak-hour traffic is at best harrowing, and at
worst downright treacherous. While cyclists are able to feel in some
control over what's happening in front of them, car drivers in the
outermost lane tend to see them as an annoying chicane and overtake
leaving a fraction of the space they'd give another car. And research
from the University of Bath shows that where a cyclist is wearing
protective clothing, drivers are likely to cut in even closer.

Dr Ian Walker, a traffic psychologist from the University of Bath,
used a bicycle fitted with a computer and an ultrasonic distance
sensor to record data from over 2,500 overtaking motorists in
Salisbury and Bristol last September.

Dr Walker, who was struck by both a bus and a truck in the course of
the experiment, spent half the time wearing a cycle helmet and half
the time bare-headed. He was wearing the helmet both times he was
struck. He found that drivers were as much as twice as likely to get
particularly close to the bicycle when he was wearing the helmet.

Across the board, drivers passed an average of 8.5 cm (3 1/3 inches)
closer with the helmet than without. The research has been accepted
for publication in the journal Accident Analysis & Prevention.

Size of vehicle also played a role: the average car passed 1.33 metres
away from the bicycle, the average white van was 10cm closer. The
average truck was a further 9cm closer, and the average bus 4cm closer
again - 23cm closer on average than a car.

Furthermore, Dr. Walker wore a long wig on some trials to see if
perceived gender had any effect on overtaking distances. It certainly
did - drivers gave him an average 14cm more room.

What are the implications? Perhaps when drivers see male riders suited
up with all the correct gear they assume they'll be more predictable
and able to get themselves out of trouble. Maybe there's some sort of
chivalrous courtesy going on when female riders are left wider gaps.
Perhaps, as the vehicle size data suggests, drivers simply see
overtaking a cyclist as an opportunity to stamp their road authority
on a weaker, more vulnerable competitor for tarmac space.

Either way, the research throws a very interesting slant on the
mandatory bicycle helmet laws found in many areas. While helmets are
clearly an advantage in a fall, there's little to suggest they do much
when the rider is hit by a car or truck. And if a helmeted cyclist
experiences around 20% more close overtaking moves than his unhelmeted
contemporary, does wearing a helmet actually make bicycle commuting
more dangerous?

A fascinating psychological study. Want to see a person's true
character? Study them alone, in a car, in traffic. And prepare to be
shocked.

http://www.gizmag.com/go/7255/

[Eric Vey]

ComandanteBanana wrote:

Somebody IS organized.
http://spokesnfolks.blogspot.com/2008/04/town-hall-hurrahs-for-responsible.html

Riders cheered the news last night that one of the toll lanes onto the
Rickenbacker Causeway is soon to be kept open for bicycles only on
weekdays and early weekend mornings. Jeff Cohen, of Miami-Dade Public
Works, said the change will take place when current modifications of the
toll gates are complete.

About four dozen cyclists turned out for the bicycle town hall session
in Coral Gables. We heard encouraging news about some South Dade streets
that will be redone to include bike lanes (details later), and an update
on the long series of bike-safety improvements on the Rickenbacker
between Miami and Key Biscayne. Most of us were getting our first look
at a path solution that will take westbound riders off the Rickenbacker
smoothly onto Brickell Avenue without having to mix it up with cars and
boat trailers in the flyover. There's more, but I'll have to report
later. It's tax day, you know...

[ComandanteBanana]

Somebody IS organized.http://spokesnfolks.blogspot.com/2008/04/town-hall-hurrahs-for-respon...
Riders cheered the news last night that one of the toll lanes onto the
Rickenbacker Causeway is soon to be kept open for bicycles only on
weekdays and early weekend mornings. Jeff Cohen, of Miami-Dade Public
Works, said the change will take place when current modifications of the
toll gates are complete.
About four dozen cyclists turned out for the bicycle town hall session
in Coral Gables. We heard encouraging news about some South Dade streets
that will be redone to include bike lanes (details later), and an update
on the long series of bike-safety improvements on the Rickenbacker
between Miami and Key Biscayne. Most of us were getting our first look
at a path solution that will take westbound riders off the Rickenbacker
smoothly onto Brickell Avenue without having to mix it up with cars and
boat trailers in the flyover. There's more, but I'll have to report
later. It's tax day, you know...

So what's the gain? It was free anytime, any day, no? Or you mean the
traffic lanes are being opened to bikes?

[Eric Vey]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Somebody IS organized.http://spokesnfolks.blogspot.com/2008/04/town-hall-hurrahs-for-respon...
Riders cheered the news last night that one of the toll lanes onto the
Rickenbacker Causeway is soon to be kept open for bicycles only on
weekdays and early weekend mornings. Jeff Cohen, of Miami-Dade Public
Works, said the change will take place when current modifications of the
toll gates are complete.
About four dozen cyclists turned out for the bicycle town hall session
in Coral Gables. We heard encouraging news about some South Dade streets
that will be redone to include bike lanes (details later), and an update
on the long series of bike-safety improvements on the Rickenbacker
between Miami and Key Biscayne. Most of us were getting our first look
at a path solution that will take westbound riders off the Rickenbacker
smoothly onto Brickell Avenue without having to mix it up with cars and
boat trailers in the flyover. There's more, but I'll have to report
later. It's tax day, you know...

So what's the gain? It was free anytime, any day, no? Or you mean the
traffic lanes are being opened to bikes?

I read that one lane will be for bikes only. This will not be all the
time, but on weekdays and early weekend mornings. I don't live there, so
I don't know much more about it.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Eric Vey

Post by ComandanteBanana

Somebody IS organized.http://spokesnfolks.blogspot.com/2008/04/town-hall-hurrahs-for-respon...
Riders cheered the news last night that one of the toll lanes onto the
Rickenbacker Causeway is soon to be kept open for bicycles only on
weekdays and early weekend mornings. Jeff Cohen, of Miami-Dade Public
Works, said the change will take place when current modifications of the
toll gates are complete.
About four dozen cyclists turned out for the bicycle town hall session
in Coral Gables. We heard encouraging news about some South Dade streets
that will be redone to include bike lanes (details later), and an update
on the long series of bike-safety improvements on the Rickenbacker
between Miami and Key Biscayne. Most of us were getting our first look
at a path solution that will take westbound riders off the Rickenbacker
smoothly onto Brickell Avenue without having to mix it up with cars and
boat trailers in the flyover. There's more, but I'll have to report
later. It's tax day, you know...

So what's the gain? It was free anytime, any day, no? Or you mean the
traffic lanes are being opened to bikes?

I read that one lane will be for bikes only. This will not be all the
time, but on weekdays and early weekend mornings. I don't live there, so
I don't know much more about it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Well, it ain't much of a difference I think.

Key Biscayne is like a bikers paradise (that's where the wealthy live
anyway), but once you go deep into the Miami jungle, things turn
scary. Your life won't be worth it more than a stray dog. ;)

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
"banana" boy.

DonQuijote and ComandanteBanana are the same thing.

I'm aware of that.

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
claim. No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.
All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
rate from bicycling is infinitesmal. There are roughly fifteen
million miles ridden between bike fatalities. People who cycle
regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists. Many
researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
traffic.

Man, you need to go in the jungle more often... "Riding a bicycle in
peak-hour traffic is at best harrowing, and at worst downright
treacherous."...

I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.

I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
"Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.

I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
scraped my hands a bit.

You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.

- Frank Krygowski

[donquijote1954]

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
Pat (who?), Jack May, and "donquijote" all manage to be very wrong,
although the first two come at it from a different direction than our
"banana" boy.

DonQuijote and ComandanteBanana are the same thing.

I'm aware of that.

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
No, you won't get killed riding a bike, despite what Jack and Pat
claim.  No, the world doesn't have to be transformed to make bicycling
safe, despite donquijote's paranoid whining.
All three of you need to learn a lot about the real data. The fatality
rate from bicycling is infinitesmal.  There are roughly fifteen
million miles ridden between bike fatalities.  People who cycle
regularly have been shown to live longer than typical motorists.  Many
researchers have found that the risk of cycling is less, per hour,
than the risk of motoring, or less than the risk of walking near
traffic.

Man, you need to go in the jungle more often... "Riding a bicycle in
peak-hour traffic is at best harrowing, and at worst downright
treacherous."...

I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
is.  Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic.  Unlike
you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
of danger.  And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
"Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
I've commuted by bike since 1977.  I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
and in peak rush hour in many of them.  I've ridden in at least eight
countries.  I've done many self-supported tours,  up to 4000 miles.
I've ridden for nearly 40 years.  In all that time, my only on-road
injury was one skinned knee.  Off road, add one incident where I
scraped my hands a bit.
You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it.  If
you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it.  Ride where you're
comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
- Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...

I even bet you that riding a bike on America's roads is more dangerous
than doing service in Iraq.

We have to do the numbers, but I think that that's more true than
Obama's statement that soldiers in Iraq are safer than kids in
Chicago. At least I see more terrorists on our roads. ;)

[donquijote1954]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by f***@gmail.com
I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
"Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
scraped my hands a bit.
You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
- Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...
I even bet you that riding a bike on America's roads is more dangerous
than doing service in Iraq.
We have to do the numbers, but I think that that's more true than
Obama's statement that soldiers in Iraq are safer than kids in
Chicago. At least I see more terrorists on our roads. ;)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

OK, here I respond to my own challenge, since there's been no
challengers so far...

Some numbers on nationwide bicycle fatalities from 1975-2002:
"660 bicyclists were killed in crashes with motor vehicles in 2002."

So, since the deployment in Iraq accounts to 150,000 or so, we have to
prove that the same number of people riding bikes on heavy traffic
have a greater death toll. Of course, this doesn't apply to well
maintained bike paths where the beautiful people live nor to those
living in the actual Green Zone in Baghdad.

And also you have to take into account that bikers are not wearing
heavy armor... ;)

[donquijote1954]

How sad, you have a strong idea and then you die because you were
wrong all along. Case in point is how Crocodile Hunter was killed by a
manta ray while trying to prove that sea monsters were quite
harmless... No, they are not. I say, "NEVER TRUST THE BEAST!" A basic
concept in the jungle.

Here's another example of people who die because of their wrong
ideas...

Is Cycling Dangerous?
Cyclist Ken Kifer uses statistics from a variety of reliable sources
to show that bicycling is not as dangerous as people often think it
is. I think his number of cyclists is a bit optimisitic, and that
makes the fractional risk a bit too small in some cases, but overall
he makes a good argument that cycling is not that risky. Sadly, Ken
was killed by a drunken driver in September 2003 while he was
bicycling.

[donquijote1954]

Well, America ain't alone in the law of the jungle. Even civilized
Canada suffers from it. But the solution is the same...

"if the cops do something about how much worse driving has gotten in
the city, even stupid humans will play nice to avoid consequences,
which they won't do just because it is right."


Cyclist Stabs Motorist
Posted November 2nd, 2007 by vic in road rage
The Toronto Star is reporting that a cyclist stabbed a motorist with a
screwdriver after a road rage incident. It happened this morning at
around 9:45am at the corner of College and McCaul.

A few more details on the City News website. They believe the cyclist
was a "courier".

It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
even come close to wanting to stab someone.

All this madness on the roads needs to end.

...

cars as weapons
On November 2nd, 2007 tanya says:
Definitely its not acceptable to stab a motorist over a road rage
altercation. Its not acceptable either to threaten them by waving a
knife in their face.

But yet when motorists get "road rage" they have a deadly weapon right
under their right foot. I've encountered motorists who will try to
intimidate me by gunning for me, then swerving at the last minute. Its
sad that this kind of knife waving is all too socially "acceptable".

...

Human nature is s%$#
On November 2nd, 2007 Aidan says:
Who cares what the guy's job, or lack of, was. He went postal. The
fact that every cyclist commenting here has likely fantasized about
doing something similar points to what we put up with. Human nature is
s%$#, but if the cops do something about how much worse driving has
gotten in the city, even stupid humans will play nice to avoid
consequences, which they won't do just because it is right.

http://www.ibiketo.ca/node/1735

[Bill Z.]

Post by donquijote1954
Well, America ain't alone in the law of the jungle. Even civilized
Canada suffers from it. But the solution is the same...

Fortunately it isn't the same - here it could have involved a gun
and a much higher chance of a fatality.

Post by donquijote1954
Cyclist Stabs Motorist
Posted November 2nd, 2007 by vic in road rage
The Toronto Star is reporting that a cyclist stabbed a motorist with a
screwdriver after a road rage incident. It happened this morning at
around 9:45am at the corner of College and McCaul.
A few more details on the City News website. They believe the cyclist
was a "courier".
It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
even come close to wanting to stab someone.

I was in one incident (fortunately no injuries or crashes) in which
an irate driver passed me in very light traffic on a perfectly straight
road, and then, when the road went from 4 lanes to 2, he tried to
close the gap between us and would slam on his breaks, repeating this
behavior 3 times. I managed to avoid an accident, but it was very
close.

I got his license number and reported it to the police. With the reaction
I got from the f___tards in the DA's office, coupled with the lies and
run-arounds, I can see why someone might react the way this Canadian
cyclist did. If society wants people to do the "right" thing and let
the criminal justice system handle it, the criminal justice system has
to uphold its part of the bargain.

BTW, the driver admitted to the braking. His excuse was that I was
supposedly going 30 in a 25 zone and he couldn't outrun me, but I
was blocking traffic anyway. And that was on a knobby-tired mountain
bike on basically level ground.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Bill Z.

Post by donquijote1954
It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
even come close to wanting to stab someone.

I was in one incident (fortunately no injuries or crashes) in which
an irate driver passed me in very light traffic on a perfectly straight
road, and then, when the road went from 4 lanes to 2, he tried to
close the gap between us and would slam on his breaks, repeating this
behavior 3 times.  I managed to avoid an accident, but it was very
close.
I got his license number and reported it to the police. With the reaction
I got from the f___tards in the DA's office, coupled with the lies and
run-arounds, I can see why someone might react the way this Canadian
cyclist did.  If society wants people to do the "right" thing and let
the criminal justice system handle it, the criminal justice system has
to uphold its part of the bargain.
BTW, the driver admitted to the braking.  His excuse was that I was
supposedly going 30 in a 25 zone and he couldn't outrun me, but I
was blocking traffic anyway.  And that was on a knobby-tired mountain
bike on basically level ground.
--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

I forgot to get his plate, but for the reasons above, I don't think
there would have been justice --and definitely I'd have gone through a
lot of trouble.

I have another strategy in dealing with the beasts and it's based on a
saying of mine, "My struggle is not against the puppet, but against
the puppeteer"...

Who's the puppeteer who could change things and GIVE RESPECT to the
cyclists? The police, the politicians, the president? Or all of them?
The puppet only takes life in an atmosphere where the cyclists are
equivalent to a stray dog. Even if you screwdrive him, it's not worth
it. Never waste your time with the puppet. Go for the puppeteer. And
that's what I'm doing here.

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by f***@gmail.com
I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
"Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
scraped my hands a bit.
You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.

That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...

Roughly fifteen million miles of cycling are done between fatalities.
That proves that cycling is safe. (Hyden C, Nilsson, Risser R.
WALCYNG - how to enhance WALking and CycliNG instead of shorter car
trips and to make these modes safer, 1998.)

Cycling provides 20 years of life gained for every year of life lost.
That proves that cycling is safe. (British Medical Association,
Cycling: Towards Health and Safety, Oxford University Press, 1992)

An American's risk of dying inside a car is 1 in 5000. Of dying while
walking is 1 in 40,000. Of dying from a bicycle crash is 1 in
130,000. That proves that cycling is safe. (Laudan, Larry, The Book
of Risks)

In a typical month, those who participate in cycling for exercise are
less likely to injure themselves than those who walk for exercise,
lift weights for exercise, do aerobic dancing for exercise, or even
garden for exercise. Yes, bicycling is safer than gardening.
(Powell, K., et. al., Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening,
Weighlifting, Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics, in Medicine & Science in
Sports & Fitness, 1998)

Stop posting your garbage. You've proven you're a fearful wimp, and
that you're not going to get better. But don't assault us with your
ignorance and whining.

- Frank Krygowski

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by donquijote1954

Post by f***@gmail.com
I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
is.  Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic.  Unlike
you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
of danger.  And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
"Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
I've commuted by bike since 1977.  I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
and in peak rush hour in many of them.  I've ridden in at least eight
countries.  I've done many self-supported tours,  up to 4000 miles.
I've ridden for nearly 40 years.  In all that time, my only on-road
injury was one skinned knee.  Off road, add one incident where I
scraped my hands a bit.
You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it.  If
you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it.  Ride where you're
comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.

That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...

Roughly fifteen million miles of cycling are done between fatalities.
That proves that cycling is safe.  (Hyden C, Nilsson, Risser R.
WALCYNG - how to enhance WALking and CycliNG instead of shorter car
trips and to make these modes safer, 1998.)
Cycling provides 20 years of life gained for every year of life lost.
That proves that cycling is safe. (British Medical Association,
Cycling: Towards Health and Safety, Oxford University Press, 1992)
An American's risk of dying inside a car is 1 in 5000.  Of dying while
walking is 1 in 40,000.  Of dying from a bicycle crash is 1 in
130,000.  That proves that cycling is safe.  (Laudan, Larry, The Book
of Risks)
In a typical month, those who participate in cycling for exercise are
less likely to injure themselves than those who walk for exercise,
lift weights for exercise, do aerobic dancing for exercise, or even
garden for exercise.  Yes, bicycling is safer than gardening.
(Powell, K., et. al., Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening,
Weighlifting, Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics, in Medicine & Science in
Sports & Fitness, 1998)
Stop posting your garbage.  You've proven you're a fearful wimp, and
that you're not going to get better.  But don't assault us with your
ignorance and whining.
- Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Biking in traffic ain't safe because:

1- The drivers are poorly trained, and pass on every lane, including
the right

2- They are often on the phone or don't give a damn

3- Some are real criminals

4- Cyclists are not given respect, both from drivers and authorities

5- Our fat SUVs make it harder to stay clear

As for the stats, "There are lies, and statistics"...

[ComandanteBanana]

Maldistribution of wealth?
I wasn't aware that there was a pile of wealth somewhere that was being
distributed around the world by someone.

Because you aren't one of the elite, nor can you see it well enough to
understand that the wealth does exist, but only for the very very few.
Mike

The lions control the wealth and the destiny of the jungle...

"what you get is a world where the only law is the law of the jungle,
where the strong prey on the weak and where might makes right. That is
the world we live in today, effectively run as a dictatorship"

(Gee, it almost sounds like our roads!)

The Law of the Jungle
by Jamie Stern-Weiner

In principle, international law serves the same purpose for the world
as traditional common law does for states. As with domestic societies,
without a system of law that is both applied universally and enforced
effectively, what you get is a world where the only law is the law of
the jungle, where the strong prey on the weak and where might makes
right. That is the world we live in today, effectively run as a
dictatorship, where the powerful mold the world around them according
to their interests using force and coercion where necessary.
Unsurprisingly, then, the current international climate exhibits many
of the features of a dictatorship. The strong are exempt from the rule
of law and decide unilaterally whom the law should and should not
apply to. The powerful are free to use violence and intimidation to
coerce the weak into submission. The status quo is, unsurprisingly,
extremely unpopular with the majority of the world – a popular
dictatorship is a rare thing. Dictatorship usually goes hand in hand
with war because a dictator is primarily concerned with consolidating
and expanding his power and, for the powerful, war is an extremely
effective tool for furthering one's own interests.

A strong and apolitical international justice system is, then,
critical in the struggle for peace. Without such a system of
international law, we are all leaving our collective fate in the hands
of the powerful, hands that we can be sure are far from benign.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jsweiner.php?articleid=10431

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by donquijote1954

Post by f***@gmail.com
I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
"Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
scraped my hands a bit.
You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.

That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...

Roughly fifteen million miles of cycling are done between fatalities.
That proves that cycling is safe. (Hyden C, Nilsson, Risser R.
WALCYNG - how to enhance WALking and CycliNG instead of shorter car
trips and to make these modes safer, 1998.)
Cycling provides 20 years of life gained for every year of life lost.
That proves that cycling is safe. (British Medical Association,
Cycling: Towards Health and Safety, Oxford University Press, 1992)
An American's risk of dying inside a car is 1 in 5000. Of dying while
walking is 1 in 40,000. Of dying from a bicycle crash is 1 in
130,000. That proves that cycling is safe. (Laudan, Larry, The Book
of Risks)
In a typical month, those who participate in cycling for exercise are
less likely to injure themselves than those who walk for exercise,
lift weights for exercise, do aerobic dancing for exercise, or even
garden for exercise. Yes, bicycling is safer than gardening.
(Powell, K., et. al., Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening,
Weighlifting, Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics, in Medicine & Science in
Sports & Fitness, 1998)
Stop posting your garbage. You've proven you're a fearful wimp, and
that you're not going to get better. But don't assault us with your
ignorance and whining.
- Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

1- The drivers are poorly trained, and pass on every lane, including
the right
2- They are often on the phone or don't give a damn
3- Some are real criminals
4- Cyclists are not given respect, both from drivers and authorities
5- Our fat SUVs make it harder to stay clear

Those are reasons _you_ imagine cycling is not safe. Data prove you
wrong.

Post by ComandanteBanana
As for the stats, "There are lies, and statistics"...

Whenever I see someone attempt to quote that, I know the person is
mathematically incompetent.

And you didn't even get the quote right.

- Frank Krygowski

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by donquijote1954

Post by f***@gmail.com
I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
is.  Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic.  Unlike
you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
of danger.  And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
"Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
I've commuted by bike since 1977.  I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
and in peak rush hour in many of them.  I've ridden in at least eight
countries.  I've done many self-supported tours,  up to 4000 miles.
I've ridden for nearly 40 years.  In all that time, my only on-road
injury was one skinned knee.  Off road, add one incident where I
scraped my hands a bit.
You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it.  If
you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it.  Ride where you're
comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.

That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...

Roughly fifteen million miles of cycling are done between fatalities.
That proves that cycling is safe.  (Hyden C, Nilsson, Risser R.
WALCYNG - how to enhance WALking and CycliNG instead of shorter car
trips and to make these modes safer, 1998.)
Cycling provides 20 years of life gained for every year of life lost.
That proves that cycling is safe. (British Medical Association,
Cycling: Towards Health and Safety, Oxford University Press, 1992)
An American's risk of dying inside a car is 1 in 5000.  Of dying while
walking is 1 in 40,000.  Of dying from a bicycle crash is 1 in
130,000.  That proves that cycling is safe.  (Laudan, Larry, The Book
of Risks)
In a typical month, those who participate in cycling for exercise are
less likely to injure themselves than those who walk for exercise,
lift weights for exercise, do aerobic dancing for exercise, or even
garden for exercise.  Yes, bicycling is safer than gardening.
(Powell, K., et. al., Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening,
Weighlifting, Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics, in Medicine & Science in
Sports & Fitness, 1998)
Stop posting your garbage.  You've proven you're a fearful wimp, and
that you're not going to get better.  But don't assault us with your
ignorance and whining.
- Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

1- The drivers are poorly trained, and pass on every lane, including
the right
2- They are often on the phone or don't give a damn
3- Some are real criminals
4- Cyclists are not given respect, both from drivers and authorities
5- Our fat SUVs make it harder to stay clear

Those are reasons _you_ imagine cycling is not safe.  Data prove you
wrong.

Post by ComandanteBanana
As for the stats, "There are lies, and statistics"...

Whenever I see someone attempt to quote that, I know the person is
mathematically incompetent.
And you didn't even get the quote right.
- Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

OK, here's this jungle where you are the guide, and in it there are
many wild beasts, and you are telling to the first time explorer that
because you've survived for so long, they'll be fine. Hmmm...

You know, all kinds of predators in there: snakes, elephants, lions...
Well, you need some kind of shotgun or at least mosquito repellent. It
sounds very scary according to the stories of those who have been
bitten.

WHAT DO OUR FRIENDS WHO ARE EXPERTS AT SURVIVAL SAY? ;)

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, here's this jungle where you are the guide, and in it there are
many wild beasts, and you are telling to the first time explorer that
because you've survived for so long, they'll be fine. Hmmm...
You know, all kinds of predators in there: snakes, elephants, lions...
Well, you need some kind of shotgun or at least mosquito repellent. It
sounds very scary according to the stories of those who have been
bitten.
WHAT DO OUR FRIENDS WHO ARE EXPERTS AT SURVIVAL SAY? ;)

They say you should post only on alt.jungle.paranoid.fantasies.

- Frank Krygowski

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, here's this jungle where you are the guide, and in it there are
many wild beasts, and you are telling to the first time explorer that
because you've survived for so long, they'll be fine. Hmmm...
You know, all kinds of predators in there: snakes, elephants, lions...
Well, you need some kind of shotgun or at least mosquito repellent. It
sounds very scary according to the stories of those who have been
bitten.
WHAT DO OUR FRIENDS WHO ARE EXPERTS AT SURVIVAL SAY? ;)

They say you should post only on alt.jungle.paranoid.fantasies.
- Frank Krygowski

Well, I see plenty of predators out there. But you missed out on the
perfect model to analyze our roads...

1- You can't take a shotgun into a bike ride

2- The predator is coming at you from the back

3- You can't identify the predator; it may just be an innocent-looking
soccer mom in her SUV

For all those reasons our roads remain "MOST DANGEROUS JUNGLE!"

[Jym Dyer]

Post by ComandanteBanana
For all those reasons our roads remain "MOST DANGEROUS
JUNGLE!"

=v= I'm sure your ALL CAPS is will convince the masses
far more than all those pesky facts and figures.
<_Jym_>

---------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==--------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

[Pat]

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.

Pat in TX

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Pat

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
Pat in TX

I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
live in the boondocks.

[donquijote1954]

Comandante, you need to find a better route!

Suzy, regrettably I don't live anywhere close to those places where
bicycles are OK, so I must be happy to do turn to my stationary bike,
and get my workout indoors...

But have you heard of Global Warming or the War in Iraq being
connected to what we drive? Should I also shot off the news from the
outside world?

Hey, I may as well go to church and pray that Armageddon is coming
soon... ;)

[Tom Sherman]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Pat

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
Pat in TX

I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
live in the boondocks.

WRONG!!!

"Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.

Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.

[Pat]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Pat

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
Pat in TX

I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
live in the boondocks.

WRONG!!!
"Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. What's up with that? It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle. What's wrong with that?

Besides, boodocks is falling out of use. It is usually referred to as
'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
York". Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
"upstate" aren't redundant. Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
Rochester and Syracuse. Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Pat

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
Pat in TX

I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
live in the boondocks.

WRONG!!!
"Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing.  What's up with that?  It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle.  What's wrong with that?
Besides, boodocks is falling out of use.  It is usually referred to as
'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
York".  Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
"upstate" aren't redundant.  Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
Rochester and Syracuse.  Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That will overcrowded soon as the world population explodes and the
hungry masses from the Third World come to America by boatloads. They
are already doing it from Haiti, where the situation is desperate.
See, that's a place where the law of the jungle wiped out all the
resources and people are rioting now.

Food crisis stirs talk in Congress

WASHINGTON, Apr 16, 2008 (The Miami Herald - McClatchy-Tribune
Information Services via COMTEX) -- -- Lawmakers on Tuesday demanded
immediate debt relief for Haiti and the release of millions of dollars
in food aid to help ease the Caribbean nation's struggle with soaring
food prices.

...

"A fight for our moral authority is at stake here," Jackson said,
adding that immigration rules for Haitians should be relaxed. "We
cannot have one set of rules for Cubans and another for Haitians."

Rep. Janice Schakowsky, D-Ill., said the $96 million for Haiti
amounted to what the United States spent in seven hours in Iraq.

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1374788/

(Hey, this goes to show that I'm not repeating stuff here. What you
want me to talk about next?)

[Pat]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Pat

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
Pat in TX

I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
live in the boondocks.

WRONG!!!
"Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing.  What's up with that?  It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle.  What's wrong with that?
Besides, boodocks is falling out of use.  It is usually referred to as
'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
York".  Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
"upstate" aren't redundant.  Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
Rochester and Syracuse.  Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That will overcrowded soon as the world population explodes and the
hungry masses from the Third World come to America by boatloads. They
are already doing it from Haiti, where the situation is desperate.
See, that's a place where the law of the jungle wiped out all the
resources and people are rioting now.
Food crisis stirs talk in Congress
WASHINGTON, Apr 16, 2008 (The Miami Herald - McClatchy-Tribune
Information Services via COMTEX) -- -- Lawmakers on Tuesday demanded
immediate debt relief for Haiti and the release of millions of dollars
in food aid to help ease the Caribbean nation's struggle with soaring
food prices.
...
"A fight for our moral authority is at stake here," Jackson said,
adding that immigration rules for Haitians should be relaxed. "We
cannot have one set of rules for Cubans and another for Haitians."
Rep. Janice Schakowsky, D-Ill., said the $96 million for Haiti
amounted to what the United States spent in seven hours in Iraq.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1374788/
(Hey, this goes to show that I'm not repeating stuff here. What you
want me to talk about next?)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Talk about the role of the bicycler in ensuring his/her own safety
with a brief forray into bicycle edicate. A sidebar and politeness
and civility would also be nice. Then you could cap this with a
discussion on respect for other people, the end to ego-centricism,
recognition that all people are different (and want different things)
and how the world would be better if we all did our part to get along.

That would be a nice this for discussion.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Pat

Post by ComandanteBanana
(Hey, this goes to show that I'm not repeating stuff here. What you
want me to talk about next?)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Talk about the role of the bicycler in ensuring his/her own safety
with a brief forray into bicycle edicate.  A sidebar and politeness
and civility would also be nice.  Then you could cap this with a
discussion on respect for other people, the end to ego-centricism,
recognition that all people are different (and want different things)
and how the world would be better if we all did our part to get along.
That would be a nice this for discussion.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not until we see the connection between the victims of the law of the
jungle in Haiti and our own roads we will we are under attack by the
rich and powerful...

On Apr 13, 8:49 am, Igor The Terrible

Post by Pat
My...imagine that! The repercussions of the maldistribution of wealth
will soon turn on new avenues and come back to rattle the cages of the
economically oppressive whose reasoning has been all but squashed by
insatiable greed. Potable water is a becoming an endangered commodity
and now food is right behind it. This shit doesn't look good at all.
A word to the wise; address this emerging crisis promptly as it should
be...or resign yourselves to a fate of your own making. It's no
longer a game of money being used as beans to keep score. It is now
becoming a matter of survival and the law of the jungle will rapidly
eclipse the laws of intellectuals for the promotion of an orderly
society. Riots are already breaking out in our hemisphere. (See
Haiti)

We can't simply get along because a few want to keep their lion's
share of the pie, whether that pie is resources or a piece of road.
And every monkey who does something about it, gets us one step closer
toward fixing the jungle --or making it real wild for all. WELCOME TO
THE JUNGLE!

[ComandanteBanana]

I put this question to the Scandinavians...

I challenge the lady who had these incidents to tell me if she thinks
that could have happened to her in Sweden. While I was in Norway, I
generally saw good behavior. I'm writing from the jungle
(Miami)... ;)

"Actually, I know this first hand. I grew up on the key and there is
a toll you have to pay to get on there. The residents always
complained about how their tolls were being raised because of people
running the tolls. At one town meeting, they all decided that if they
ever saw someone trying to run the toll, they would alert a toll booth
collector (the emblem lane was a clear lane without an attendant) and
so they did; stopping in the lane to call over attendants to charge
the scammers trying to sneak in behind them. You heard stories of
arguments and road rage farther down the causeway but one day a
busybody troublemaker my mom was driving through there with me in the
car. She saw through her rear view mirror that the guy behind us did
not have an emblem so she stopped and started honking until the
attendant came over to collect his measly dollar and off she drove.
Right before the bridge, the man pulls up next to us, on my side, and
pulls out a gun- A GUN. I was still in elementary school. I remember
how scared my mom looked and how TERRIFIED I was when she physically
started taking my seatbelt off and pushing me towards the floor of the
car. She flew to the first gas station she could find and she NEVER
tried that hall monitor shit again.

I, on the other hand, did not learn my lesson that day. When I was
16, a few days shy of leaving for college, I was driving through the
Gables with my best pal Laura and there was this car of guys that kept
pulling up next to us. We ignored them- actually, we screwed with
them by turning up the radio at the light by the Coral Gables
library. We played this game the whole way through the Gables. At
the light of Coral Way/Miracle Mile and Le Jeune, they pulled up next
to us again. With that they make some dumb ass comments and we
laugh. One of them yells ‘what you laughing at white cracker bitch?’
To which my smart ass responds ‘F U.’ The guy got out of the car and
grabbed my friends hair. Not thinking that there are lunatics out
there and because I can’t leave well enough alone empowered by the
whole teen/live forever bit, I get out of the car to get the guy’s tag
number. There was a quick verbal exchange but it ended in the guy
punching me. 3 am and 12 stitches later, I decided life pays you back
for your crimes that and I finally understood Newton’s Law of Motion."

HAVE YOU BEEN THE VICTIM OF HORROR STORIES LIKE THESE?

[ComandanteBanana]

Like I said, I put the question to the Scandinavians (isn't Internet
wonderful?) as to whether they too turn to the law of the jungle in
traffic. But in the meantime, see what I've found...

"I have already mentioned about driving in right, in Sweden. One
another thing I observed is, the way pedestrians are given the
priority. Maybe it’s the same all over Europe and somewhere else. But
whenever a pedestrian is about to cross the road, all vehicles come to
a stop and allow the pedestrian to cross. And I have seen Swedish
people nod at the driver and smile, everytime someone stops their
vehicle. Being a good mannered person(Ahem), I tried to follow suit.
But then old habits die hard. I look at the driver, and invariably end
up looking at the co-passenger since the driver sits here on the left
side of the car. And most of the times, it happens to be a girl. So it
is like this. Driver stops the vehicle, I cross the road and then
smile at the girl sitting next to the driver. Poor driver. What he
must be thinking of me? ‘Saala! I stopped the vehicle for you and you
smile at the girl next to me. Hmph!’"

They seem to be pretty civilized. Here the guy will come out of the
car with a bat for looking at his girlfriend. But in India is pretty
bad too...

"good one. in india the drivers have their fun trying to run down the
people and well mannered people too"

And yet their politicians are addressing the issue...


Where are your manners, PM asks motorists

June 24, 2006 15:57 IST

Appalled by the chaos on Indian roads, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh
on Saturday said that wind swept roads and fancy cars alone did not
reflect progress, it had to be accompanied by good road manners and
discipline.

“Building modern roads and driving modern cars are not the end all and
be all of progress. Good road manners and adherence to road discipline
are equally important,” he said at a national highway project
inauguration function in Bangalore.

“I think we must ask ourselves, why can’t we be more polite to each
other, more caring of each other, more respectful of each other,” Dr
Singh asked.

The prime minister said people must learn road manners, how to give
way to pedestrians, how to observe normal rules while overtaking, how
to park and when not to blow a horn.

“These are simple rules, but their observance makes a lot of
difference to our daily lives,” he said, adding: “We Indians behave
with great courtesy at home and with our family and friends. But
sometimes, when we go out we leave these good manners at home. On the
road, we lose control of our good senses. Why should this be so.”

http://prabhukrish.net/2006/06/22/say-cheese/

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Pat

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Pat

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
Pat in TX

I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
live in the boondocks.

WRONG!!!
"Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.

You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. What's up with that? It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle. What's wrong with that?

As a child I lived at the end of a 1 mile long dead end gravel road, 7
miles from a small town, and over 75 miles from the nearest city with
more than 20 thousand people, so I have a pretty good idea of what the
boondocks are.

My main problem with the boondocks are there are too many narrow minded
and often racist/bigoted people, not to mention the armed crazies. I do
NOT appreciate warning shots fired over my head while I am on public
right-of-way.

Post by Pat
Besides, boodocks is falling out of use. It is usually referred to as
'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
York". Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
"upstate" aren't redundant. Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
Rochester and Syracuse. Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.

Younger people often use the expression BFE.

[Eric Vey]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Pat
You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. What's up with that? It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle. What's wrong with that?

As a child I lived at the end of a 1 mile long dead end gravel road, 7
miles from a small town, and over 75 miles from the nearest city with
more than 20 thousand people, so I have a pretty good idea of what the
boondocks are.
My main problem with the boondocks are there are too many narrow minded
and often racist/bigoted people, not to mention the armed crazies. I do
NOT appreciate warning shots fired over my head while I am on public
right-of-way.

Wait! Are you implying that there are rednecks in SW NY/NW PA? Who would
a' thunk it.

I was working on a ship once whose crew was mostly made up of Coonasses,
PA rednecks, AL rednecks and me. The PA rednecks had the others beat all
to hell.

[ComandanteBanana]

Jim - 16 April 2008 10:37 PM
"El Commandante...why don’t you tell us how you really feel.

And on a side note...where do you get your mushrooms?"


Well, I feel great now that I’m able to fight back against the jungle
responsible for the anonymous predator. The best way is to avoid the
jungles where they are common sight.

But now I’ve got a challenge for those who can change the jungle (the
police, politicians and voters at large): WHY ON EARTH THE POLICE,
INSTEAD OF RUNNING UNDERCOVER OPERATIONS AS A HOOKER, DON’T PUT AN
UNDERCOVER POLICEMAN ON A BIKE AND SEND HIM TO THE BRIDGE?

Oh, no. The police won’t do it because they don’t have orders; the
politicians won’t do it because they don’t care; and the voters --who
drive SUVs-- just want to live in a hypocritical world, where moral
rectitude, and not cyclists rights, is the priority.

That’s why with the revolution, we will bring this package…

“Sexual democracy becomes central even more than religious freedom
when discussing the Dutch vision of democracy.”

http://www.bidoun.com/issues/issue_10/05a_all.html

Actually, I propose a “Dutch Package,” where issues normal to the
Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana-- are
discussed in less open societies.

PS: Banana peels are better than mushroom. And then you eat the
banana. ;)

[Pat]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Pat

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
Pat in TX

I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
live in the boondocks.

WRONG!!!
"Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.

You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing.  What's up with that?  It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle.  What's wrong with that?

As a child I lived at the end of a 1 mile long dead end gravel road, 7
miles from a small town, and over 75 miles from the nearest city with
more than 20 thousand people, so I have a pretty good idea of what the
boondocks are.
My main problem with the boondocks are there are too many narrow minded
and often racist/bigoted people, not to mention the armed crazies. I do
NOT appreciate warning shots fired over my head while I am on public
right-of-way.

Besides, boodocks is falling out of use.  It is usually referred to as
'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
York".  Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
"upstate" aren't redundant.  Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
Rochester and Syracuse.  Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.

Younger people often use the expression BFE.

Believe it or not, I had to google that term. I have never heard it.

Post by Tom Sherman
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[Roger Zoul]

Post by Pat

Post by f***@gmail.com
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say
is that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs
bent on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as
you and I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
Pat in TX

You smell a troll? This place is stinking to the high heavens with this
troll and his buddies.

[Ron Wallenfang]

Post by Pat
As I've said before, if you get all of those problems, look within.
Others were walking for a reason -- what you were doing was unsafe.
If you can't keep up to road speed, get off the road or you'll get
killed.  If you can keep up with traffic, you wouldn't have the
problems.
It's not the bike that people dislike, it's the speed you're going.
Get over the whole bike thing and look within.-

I agree. My disapproving gesture of choice is "thumbs down", used
sparingly, for example, when an oncoming car passes another oncoming
car, and there's either no paved shoulder or only a very limited one.
It's never wise to use it when you're in the wrong.

I have some history of making sarcastic remarks to drivers who cut me
off and can hear me, e.g. "do you think that might makes right?" It's
not effective. One example: A garbage truck cut into the road right
in front of me. 1/4 mile ahead he turned into a street so I followed
him and as soon as he stopped, came up and yelled: "Do you think you
own the road or what." He just glared at me and said: " Get the
f**** out of my face." End of discussion "Please watch for
bicycles. Have a good day" has a better chance.

As a matter of general interest, how do you react when being reproved
for being in the wrong? (which happens to me from time to time, as I
have an imperfect record of waiting for stop lights and stopping at
stop signs.)

One time, on a recreation path that required leashing dogs, an
unleashed dog was in the way, so I yelled at him (the dog). His
mistress really went after me for upsetting her poor mutt. How much
sympathy do you think she got from me?

[donquijote1954]

Post by Tim McNamara

Post by Dave Larrington

That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters
and sidewalks.

Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

Because we're a big export market for British, Irish and Scottish beers?
The more we ride our bikes, the thirstier we get. ;-)

That's right. They are making us pee too much!

Something difficult to do when you are riding a bike and there's no
bushes around.

Hey, don't get me wrong, it's not that I want the Bushes around
anymore. ;)

[Dave Larrington]

Post by ComandanteBanana
That's where the cyclists in America belong: back
alleys, gutters and sidewalks.

Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Dave Larrington

Post by ComandanteBanana
That's where the cyclists in America belong: back
alleys, gutters and sidewalks.

Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

Man, we are like brothers! Our headaches are tied up to OIL, but bikes
could at least be aspirine!

Don't you have Britons dying over oil supplies?

[Eric Vey]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Dave Larrington

Post by ComandanteBanana
That's where the cyclists in America belong: back
alleys, gutters and sidewalks.

Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

Man, we are like brothers! Our headaches are tied up to OIL, but bikes
could at least be aspirine!
Don't you have Britons dying over oil supplies?

Not as many since they left Basra in September.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6975375.stm

[Jym Dyer]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Dave Larrington
Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

Man, we are like brothers! Our headaches are tied up to
OIL, but bikes could at least be aspirine!

=v= It seems you are missing the point, which has something
to do with off-topic cross-posting. A thread about cyclists
in America is OFF-TOPIC for uk.rec.cycling. Britons who are
interested in this sort of thing are fully capable of choosing
to subscribe to rec.bicycles.soc. Those who are not interested
shouldn't be having to wade through tons of off-topic chatter.

=v= The whole point of having separate newsgroups is so that
people can stick to what they're interested in. Kindly honor
this. None of this stuff belongs in rec.bicycles.rides, for
example, and rec.bicycles.misc doesn't mean "crosspost anything
and everything to this list." The purpose of *.misc newsgroups
is for things not covered by other newsgroups.

=v= Massive cross-posting is annoying and people respond by
tuning out. It's kind of exactly the opposite of getting the
message out to more people.
<_Jym_>

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Jym Dyer

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Dave Larrington
Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

Man, we are like brothers! Our headaches are tied up to
OIL, but bikes could at least be aspirine!

=v= It seems you are missing the point, which has something
to do with off-topic cross-posting. A thread about cyclists
in America is OFF-TOPIC for uk.rec.cycling. Britons who are
interested in this sort of thing are fully capable of choosing
to subscribe to rec.bicycles.soc. Those who are not interested
shouldn't be having to wade through tons of off-topic chatter.
=v= The whole point of having separate newsgroups is so that
people can stick to what they're interested in. Kindly honor
this. None of this stuff belongs in rec.bicycles.rides, for
example, and rec.bicycles.misc doesn't mean "crosspost anything
and everything to this list." The purpose of *.misc newsgroups
is for things not covered by other newsgroups.
=v= Massive cross-posting is annoying and people respond by
tuning out. It's kind of exactly the opposite of getting the
message out to more people.
<_Jym_>

Well, my arithmetic knowledge lets me know that if you publish in 5
groups, you have 5 times more chance to reach to out people.
Particularly when THE TOPIC IS TRULY UNIVERSAL. On the other hand,
when I turn on the radio I hear news I don't care about, like when
Bush says we are making progress in Iraq or that we need more research
into alternative transportation, as if bikes didn't exist.

Let those who don't want to listen to turn out. We will ALL be victims
of this jungle sooner or later.

[Tim McNamara]

In article

Post by ComandanteBanana
Well, my arithmetic knowledge lets me know that if you publish in 5
groups, you have 5 times more chance to reach to out people.

Or, alternatively, you have five times the opportunity to continue
looking like a whack troll.

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:36:00 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana

Post by ComandanteBanana
Well, my arithmetic knowledge lets me know that if you publish in 5
groups, you have 5 times more chance to reach to out people.

*Bzzzzt!* Wrong. Five times more likely to be flamed as a kook.
Especially when some of those groups are explicitly not concerned
with your jurisdiction (hint's in the letters "uk").

Guy

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Just zis Guy, you know?
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:36:00 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana

Post by ComandanteBanana
Well, my arithmetic knowledge lets me know that if you publish in 5
groups, you have 5 times more chance to reach to out people.

*Bzzzzt!* Wrong. Five times more likely to be flamed as a kook.
Especially when some of those groups are explicitly not concerned
with your jurisdiction (hint's in the letters "uk").

Not to mention that many people kill-file or otherwise ignore
excessively cross-posted threads.

[Jym Dyer]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jym Dyer
=v= Massive cross-posting is annoying and people respond by
tuning out. It's kind of exactly the opposite of getting
the message out to more people.

Well, my arithmetic knowledge lets me know that if you publish
in 5 groups, you have 5 times more chance to reach to out
people.

=v= Of course "arithmetic knowledge" would lead to that
conclusion, duh, but try to give some thought to the annoyance
factor I mentioned. That's why I mentioned it.

=v= Clearly you learned nothing from having "nolionnoproblem" and
"donquixote*" banned from the Yahoo! Groups after cross-posting
to a bunch of them. You seem to think that to solution is to do
the same to unmoderated newsgroups, which is really thickheaded.
Newsgroup software has far better filters than mailer apps, so
all you're doing is getting yourself *plonk*ed, which by my math
means you're reaching fewer people.
<_Jym_>

[Tim McNamara]

Post by Dave Larrington

That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters
and sidewalks.

Remind me again why BRITONS should care?

Because we're a big export market for British, Irish and Scottish beers?
The more we ride our bikes, the thirstier we get. ;-)

[ComandanteBanana]

OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution (the
trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas for the
lions.

Well, I made it alive because I rode the back alleys, gutters and
sidewalks of America, a strategy developed by our ancestors the
monkeys when they kept to the tree branches in order to survive. I
think on the road of evolution, Homo Sapiens somehow lost all common
sense. Somehow the alpha-male monkeys wanted to be a lion...

It was a nice ride.

http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660

[Tom Sherman]

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution (the
trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas for the
lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution (the
trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas for the
lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

The ones that are actually hungry to eat them. And they have the guts
for it. It's in the Bible.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution (the
trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas for the
lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

The ones that are actually hungry to eat them. And they have the guts
for it. It's in the Bible.

Is that book considered a reliable reference by zoologists?

[ZBicyclist]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution
(the trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas
for the lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

The ones that are actually hungry to eat them. And they have the guts
for it. It's in the Bible.

Cite?

[Tom Keats]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution
(the trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas
for the lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

The ones that are actually hungry to eat them. And they have the guts
for it. It's in the Bible.

Cite?

There's something by Isaiah about how the lion
shall eat straw, like the ox.

As an erstwhile guardian of felines, I can
assert they do eat grass. They don't digest
it very well, though. I had a Persian/alley cat
(I called him "Balzac") that enjoyed the occasional
piece of doughnut. He weighed 23 lbs, and lived
just as many years. He only growled once in his
life, and that was because of a severe toothache.

Personally, I dislike bananas. I'm not terribly
partial toward straw, either. I'd rather eat
the ox.

And y'know what? Lions lead such tough, tragic
lives.


cheers,
Tom

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Tom Keats

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution
(the trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas
for the lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

The ones that are actually hungry to eat them. And they have the guts
for it. It's in the Bible.

Cite?

There's something by Isaiah about how the lion
shall eat straw, like the ox.
As an erstwhile guardian of felines, I can
assert they do eat grass.

What happened to your cats?

[Tom Keats]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Tom Keats
As an erstwhile guardian of felines, I can
assert they do eat grass.

What happened to your cats?

They mostly died of old age. One got run over
by a car. My last one was lost by a co-worker
who was supposed to temporarily take care of him
when I suddenly had to find new digs. That was
especially heartbreaking, and I've since sworn-off
any stewardship of fellow animules. Buster was
a great guy. I got him from a woman who bred
Siameses, but one of her females went a little
wayward and subsequently gave birth to a bunch of
mixed blessings. Buster was the first one to leave
the litter.

He loved to retrieve -- I'd flick a li'l wad of paper
down the hallway, he'd go running after it, pick it
up in his teeth, come scooting back with it and
drop it at my feet, eagerly anticipating its next launch.

He enjoyed sitting on my shoulder like a parrot.

He also hated being condescended-to or belittled, and
true to his Siamese genes, he'd go to take out the eyeball
of anybody who dis'd him. So he got a rep for being
vicious, but in CatLand a bunch of people got reps for
being insufferable jerks.

Many of my friends & acquaintances have cats 'n dogs,
so I still get the joy of socializing with 'em, without
having to provide the maintenance.


cheers,
Tom

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Tom Keats

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Tom Keats
As an erstwhile guardian of felines, I can
assert they do eat grass.

What happened to your cats?

They mostly died of old age. One got run over
by a car. My last one was lost by a co-worker
who was supposed to temporarily take care of him
when I suddenly had to find new digs. That was
especially heartbreaking, and I've since sworn-off
any stewardship of fellow animules. Buster was
a great guy. I got him from a woman who bred
Siameses, but one of her females went a little
wayward and subsequently gave birth to a bunch of
mixed blessings. Buster was the first one to leave
the litter.

...

Post by Tom Keats
He also hated being condescended-to or belittled, and
true to his Siamese genes, he'd go to take out the eyeball
of anybody who dis'd him. So he got a rep for being
vicious, but in CatLand a bunch of people got reps for
being insufferable jerks.

Cats have a dry sense of humor. Not many people understand them...

[ZBicyclist]

Post by Amy Blankenship
Cats have a dry sense of humor. Not many people understand them...

(moving farther off-topic) If you want to have some fun with your cat, get
a cheap laser pointer. Point it on the floor and move it around like a
mouse. My cat loves to chase it.

The cat is not deceived; While she doesn't understand the physics behind
lasers, she clearly knows this toy is connected with me and will beg me to
get it and play. She just likes to chase stuff.

Of course, you should be careful not to shine the laser in the cat's eyes.

[Tom Keats]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Tom Keats
true to his Siamese genes, he'd go to take out the eyeball
of anybody who dis'd him. So he got a rep for being
vicious, but in CatLand a bunch of people got reps for
being insufferable jerks.

Cats have a dry sense of humor. Not many people understand them...

When I came crashing into this world, my mom had this
cat (Trixie) who was nulliparous, so she adopted me
and taught me everything Cat. I guess Trixie felt
a li'l sorry for me for my being a mere human bean.
Or maybe she thought I'd become a useful feline/human
liason. Or maybe I was just an outlet for her
latent maternalness. If Trixie was human, she'd have
been one of those scrawny, hatchet-faced old biddies
who insists upon wearing funereal garb, and viewing
the goings-on of the world with Victorian disapproval.

She also had a propensity to stash my marbles as well
as live garter snakes in people's shoes. Sometimes
she'd make a point of showing-off her herpetological
prizes to my mom's dropper-inner friends sitting at
the kitchen table for a kaffee klatch, as those slender
victims curled and squirmed grotesquely around
Trixie's face.

Then I'd be called upon to get Trixie & her snake
outa there. Then we'd comiserate out in the back
yard about being kicked out of the house. Maybe
catch another garter snake.

When she died, she just reached the end of her line,
and that was it. No pain or suffering. Just a sleepy
Final Rest, and the smug satisfaction of having educated
an human.


cheers,
Tom

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 22, 12:35 pm, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Tom Keats
As an erstwhile guardian of felines, I can
assert they do eat grass.

What happened to your cats?

They mostly died of old age.  One got run over
by a car.  My last one was lost by a co-worker
who was supposed to temporarily take care of him
when I suddenly had to find new digs.  That was
especially heartbreaking, and I've since sworn-off
any stewardship of fellow animules.  Buster was
a great guy.  I got him from a woman who bred
Siameses, but one of her females went a little
wayward and subsequently gave birth to a bunch of
mixed blessings.  Buster was the first one to leave
the litter.

...

He also hated being condescended-to or belittled, and
true to his Siamese genes, he'd go to take out the eyeball
of anybody who dis'd him.  So he got a rep for being
vicious, but in CatLand a bunch of people got reps for
being insufferable jerks.

Cats have a dry sense of humor.  Not many people understand them...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Dogs hate them like drivers hate cyclists.

[Amy Blankenship]

"ComandanteBanana" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:dd72484a-a57f-413d-8274-***@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 22, 12:35 pm, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Roger Zoul

Cats have a dry sense of humor. Not many people understand them...- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dogs hate them like drivers hate cyclists.
-----------
I guess my dogs didn't get the memo.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tom Keats

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution
(the trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas
for the lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

The ones that are actually hungry to eat them. And they have the guts
for it. It's in the Bible.

Cite?

There's something by Isaiah about how the lion
shall eat straw, like the ox.
As an erstwhile guardian of felines, I can
assert they do eat grass.  They don't digest
it very well, though.  I had a Persian/alley cat
(I called him "Balzac") that enjoyed the occasional
piece of doughnut.  He weighed 23 lbs, and lived
just as many years. He only growled once in his
life, and that was because of a severe toothache.
Personally, I dislike bananas.  I'm not terribly
partial toward straw, either.  I'd rather eat
the ox.
And y'know what?  Lions lead such tough, tragic
lives.

Interesting fact is that the Rich and Powerful surround themselves
with statues of lions and claim the lion in their family crest, so it
is that the lion is their cherished symbol. (They hate the monkey --
their real self-- for the same reason.)

And what's the symbol for the down and out? The monkeys, of course.

So the statement that the lions eat banana could be understood to mean
that they'll be humbled. When the monkey was cornered by the beast, he
said, "You can eat my banana!"

[Tom Sherman]

[...] When the monkey was cornered by the beast, he
said, "You can eat my banana!"

Family newsgroups, buddy.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tom Sherman

[...] When the monkey was cornered by the beast, he
said, "You can eat my banana!"

Family newsgroups, buddy.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Well, it's not what you think.

But I don't expect many kids to be roaming around here, right? How
many of you are still kids?

[ZBicyclist]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution
(the trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas
for the lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

The ones that are actually hungry to eat them. And they have the
guts for it. It's in the Bible.

Cite?

Interesting fact is that the Rich and Powerful surround themselves
with statues of lions and claim the lion in their family crest, so it
is that the lion is their cherished symbol. (They hate the monkey --
their real self-- for the same reason.)
And what's the symbol for the down and out? The monkeys, of course.
So the statement that the lions eat banana could be understood to mean
that they'll be humbled. When the monkey was cornered by the beast, he
said, "You can eat my banana!"

Which is a really long, labored way for Commandante Banana to admit he
doesn't have a cite for lions eating bananas in the bible.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by ComandanteBanana
So the statement that the lions eat banana could be understood to mean
that they'll be humbled. When the monkey was cornered by the beast, he
said, "You can eat my banana!"

Which is a really long, labored way for Commandante Banana to admit he
doesn't have a cite for lions eating bananas in the bible.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You can read into the Bible whatever you want. And since the lion...

(Isa. 11:6): The wolf shall also dwell with the lamb, and the leopard
shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the
fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

"The Peaceable Kingdom paintings portray a delicate balance of
difficult and unresolved issues. The lion-ego poses the greatest
threat. The wild animals are seemingly domesticated and brought into
line with loving kindness."

http://www2.gol.com/users/quakers/Hicks_Peaceable_Kingdom.htm

doesn't eat the other animals, he must be indeed a vegetarian.

[ZBicyclist]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by ComandanteBanana
So the statement that the lions eat banana could be understood to
mean that they'll be humbled. When the monkey was cornered by the
beast, he said, "You can eat my banana!"

Which is a really long, labored way for Commandante Banana to admit
he doesn't have a cite for lions eating bananas in the bible.- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You can read into the Bible whatever you want. And since the lion...
(Isa. 11:6): The wolf shall also dwell with the lamb, and the leopard
shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the
fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
"The Peaceable Kingdom paintings portray a delicate balance of
difficult and unresolved issues. The lion-ego poses the greatest
threat. The wild animals are seemingly domesticated and brought into
line with loving kindness."
http://www2.gol.com/users/quakers/Hicks_Peaceable_Kingdom.htm
doesn't eat the other animals, he must be indeed a vegetarian.

The Peaceable Kingdom paintings have never been officially recognized as
part of the Bible.

More's the pity ;)

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by ComandanteBanana
So the statement that the lions eat banana could be understood to
mean that they'll be humbled. When the monkey was cornered by the
beast, he said, "You can eat my banana!"

Which is a really long, labored way for Commandante Banana to admit
he doesn't have a cite for lions eating bananas in the bible.- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You can read into the Bible whatever you want. And since the lion...
(Isa. 11:6): The wolf shall also dwell with the lamb, and the leopard
shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the
fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
"The Peaceable Kingdom paintings portray a delicate balance of
difficult and unresolved issues. The lion-ego poses the greatest
threat. The wild animals are seemingly domesticated and brought into
line with loving kindness."
http://www2.gol.com/users/quakers/Hicks_Peaceable_Kingdom.htm
doesn't eat the other animals, he must be indeed a vegetarian.

The Peaceable Kingdom paintings have never been officially recognized as
part of the Bible.
More's the pity  ;)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The Bible in being so vague is left to many interpretations. Like the
quoted above...

(Isa. 11:6):

The wolf shall also dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie
down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling
together; and a little child shall lead them.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

[Tom Keats]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Interesting fact is that the Rich and Powerful surround themselves
with statues of lions and claim the lion in their family crest, so it
is that the lion is their cherished symbol. (They hate the monkey --
their real self-- for the same reason.)

Heraldric fauna also includes pigs, unicorns,
stags, bears, and even the good ol' Raleigh heron.

Post by ComandanteBanana
And what's the symbol for the down and out? The monkeys, of course.
So the statement that the lions eat banana could be understood to mean
that they'll be humbled. When the monkey was cornered by the beast, he
said, "You can eat my banana!"

If anything, fat-assed SUVs should be likened
more to hippopotami, which are far more dangerous
critters than lions. Hippos' dietary preferences
may lean more toward potamogetons than bananas.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Tom Keats

Post by ComandanteBanana
Interesting fact is that the Rich and Powerful surround themselves
with statues of lions and claim the lion in their family crest, so it
is that the lion is their cherished symbol. (They hate the monkey --
their real self-- for the same reason.)

Heraldric fauna also includes pigs, unicorns,
stags, bears, and even the good ol' Raleigh heron.

Yeah, but never ever a monkey. Why do they hate the monkey so much???

Post by Tom Keats

Post by ComandanteBanana
And what's the symbol for the down and out? The monkeys, of course.
So the statement that the lions eat banana could be understood to mean
that they'll be humbled. When the monkey was cornered by the beast, he
said, "You can eat my banana!"

If anything, fat-assed SUVs should be likened
more to hippopotami, which are far more dangerous
critters than lions.  Hippos' dietary preferences
may lean more toward potamogetons than bananas.

I like to compare them to dinosaurs: big, stupid and on the road to
extinction... ;)

[ComandanteBanana]

From what I see here in America, what's good for the goose is indeed
good for the gander. That is, everyone violates traffic laws.
I have a stop sign less than 100 yards from where I'm typing this.
Only about half the motorists come to a complete stop. I regularly
see motorists going through red lights. That's most often by
squeezing through a fresh red before cross traffic starts up, but I
regularly see deliberate disobedience of a light that was long red
(including one memorable one by a cop - no siren or emergency lights;
he just didn't want to wait). I see a majority of motorists exceeding
speed limits, and neglecting turn signals before turning or changing
lanes. I regularly see motorists violating the laws in other ways as
well - the list could go on and on.
Bicyclists and pedestrians do the same, of course. I believe the
major difference is not in frequency of disobedience, but in
consequences of disobedience. Bicyclists and pedestrians almost never
injure anyone but themselves by their mistakes. Motorists in America
routinely kill tens of thousands per year.
(However, that's does NOT give credence to the "bicycling is
dangerous!!!" nonsense. Most of those killed by motorists are
motorists. Only a very few are cyclists.)
In summary: People will not be perfect in their obedience to laws,
whether they are on foot, on two wheels or on four (or more). Yes,
the legal system does generally concentrate on motorist violations,
but that's only logical, since motorist offenses are the ones that do
almost all the harm.
- Frank Krygowski

I've thought we'd never agree on something.
What is it we disagree on? Oh, that riding a bike in traffic is safe.
But how can it be if drivers routinely ignore the laws, or simply
there are no good laws?

You confuse disobedience with danger.
To evaluate disobedience of laws related to a given activity, you
observe people and see how often they disobey the laws applying to
that activity.
To evaluate the danger of an activity, you observe how much time
people spend in the activity, and you count how often they are killed
or seriously injured per unit time.
roughly fifteen MILLION miles of cycling per fatality. Alternately,
dedicated riders that do over 2500 miles per year, including commuting
in traffic, average 11 years between accidents that cost a mere $50.
Most people are pretty inept at cycling. But still, they don't get
seriously injured or killed. The most typical bike injury is a
skinned knee.
Even someone as fearful as you should be able to deal with the
occasional skinned knee. So again: quit whining.
- Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I still remember that guy that cited statistics like you, only to be
killed by a drunk driver.

And how about cell phone users?

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Even someone as fearful as you should be able to deal with the
occasional skinned knee. So again: quit whining.

I still remember that guy that cited statistics like you, only to be
killed by a drunk driver.

Yes, and I've had at least four friends killed while riding in motor
vehicles. I've had four close family members seriously injured in
car crashes, one of whom is mildly crippled for life.

For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
fatalities.

Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof. You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.

Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike. Who pays your
salary? Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?

- Frank Krygowski

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by ComandanteBanana

Even someone as fearful as you should be able to deal with the
occasional skinned knee.  So again:  quit whining.

I still remember that guy that cited statistics like you, only to be
killed by a drunk driver.

Yes, and I've had at least four friends killed while riding in motor
vehicles.  I've had four  close family members seriously injured in
car crashes, one of whom is mildly crippled for life.
For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
fatalities.
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof.  You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike.  Who pays your
salary?  Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it. That's why
I speak about "the revolution" and coming out of the jungle. You, on
the other hand, want to deny something so obvious that you look either
out of touch with reality or have an agenda in mind, and offer no hope
other than rider training or mental toughness. How about the stupid
drivers and the stupid traffic laws out there? Haven't you noticed the
few cyclists that dare commute to work in America (a pitiful .4% of
the total commuting population) mostly ride on the sidewalks? So *YOU*
are the one defending the status quo, one where GM and Exxon thrive,
one where size matters, and rats run for their lives...

The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons from the Street

"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are
ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry. As if that
weren’t enough, the urban cyclist must carry the weight of history
along on every ride.
After a brief heyday at the turn of the twentieth century, American
cyclists fell out of the social consciousness, becoming an
afterthought when our cities were planned and built. Cyclists today
are left to navigate, like rats in a sewer, through a hard and
unsympathetic world that was not made for them. Yet, with the proper
attitude and a bit of knowledge, urban cyclists can thrive in this
hostile environment."

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Urban-Cycling-Lessons-Street/dp/0762727837/ref=pd_sim_b_title_1/104-6001352-1213502

And we need to fix the sewer...

[Pat]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by ComandanteBanana

Even someone as fearful as you should be able to deal with the
occasional skinned knee.  So again:  quit whining.

I still remember that guy that cited statistics like you, only to be
killed by a drunk driver.

Yes, and I've had at least four friends killed while riding in motor
vehicles.  I've had four  close family members seriously injured in
car crashes, one of whom is mildly crippled for life.
For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
fatalities.
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof.  You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike.  Who pays your
salary?  Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it. That's why
I speak about "the revolution" and coming out of the jungle. You, on
the other hand, want to deny something so obvious that you look either
out of touch with reality or have an agenda in mind, and offer no hope
other than rider training or mental toughness. How about the stupid
drivers and the stupid traffic laws out there? Haven't you noticed the
few cyclists that dare commute to work in America (a pitiful .4% of
the total commuting population) mostly ride on the sidewalks? So *YOU*
are the one defending the status quo, one where GM and Exxon thrive,
one where size matters, and rats run for their lives...
The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons from the Street
"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are
ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry. As if that
weren’t enough, the urban cyclist must carry the weight of history
along on every ride.
After a brief heyday at the turn of the twentieth century, American
cyclists fell out of the social consciousness, becoming an
afterthought when our cities were planned and built. Cyclists today
are left to navigate, like rats in a sewer, through a hard and
unsympathetic world that was not made for them. Yet, with the proper
attitude and a bit of knowledge, urban cyclists can thrive in this
hostile environment."
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Urban-Cycling-Lessons-Street/dp/0762727837/...
And we need to fix the sewer...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Here's a hint for you. YOU WILL NEVER FIX ANYTHING.

First off; many, many people would argue that things are not broken.

Second off, you can't possibly "win" because you cannot see the other
persons point of view. Therefore there is no compromise. Therefore
no one will listen to you. People hate zealots.

Third off, people who are going to change things don't spend every
waking hour writing in newsgroups. They get off their lazy butts and
do things. They are active for change -- not just running their
mouths.

Fourthly, change required passion. You don't have the ability to
persuade people. You just want to tell everyone how much better you
are than everyone else.

Finally, to get things done requires working with other people. It
requires communication skills. It required negotiation. It required
the devotion of a great deal of time and money. It required low
friends in high places. You seem to have none of them. You will just
remain a lonely, outspoken guy in spandex.

If you want to succeed, go get your meds adjusted.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by ComandanteBanana

Even someone as fearful as you should be able to deal with the
occasional skinned knee.  So again:  quit whining.

I still remember that guy that cited statistics like you, only to be
killed by a drunk driver.

Yes, and I've had at least four friends killed while riding in motor
vehicles.  I've had four  close family members seriously injured in
car crashes, one of whom is mildly crippled for life.
For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
fatalities.
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof.  You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike.  Who pays your
salary?  Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it. That's why
I speak about "the revolution" and coming out of the jungle. You, on
the other hand, want to deny something so obvious that you look either
out of touch with reality or have an agenda in mind, and offer no hope
other than rider training or mental toughness. How about the stupid
drivers and the stupid traffic laws out there? Haven't you noticed the
few cyclists that dare commute to work in America (a pitiful .4% of
the total commuting population) mostly ride on the sidewalks? So *YOU*
are the one defending the status quo, one where GM and Exxon thrive,
one where size matters, and rats run for their lives...
The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons from the Street
"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are
ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry. As if that
weren’t enough, the urban cyclist must carry the weight of history
along on every ride.
After a brief heyday at the turn of the twentieth century, American
cyclists fell out of the social consciousness, becoming an
afterthought when our cities were planned and built. Cyclists today
are left to navigate, like rats in a sewer, through a hard and
unsympathetic world that was not made for them. Yet, with the proper
attitude and a bit of knowledge, urban cyclists can thrive in this
hostile environment."
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Urban-Cycling-Lessons-Street/dp/0762727837/...
And we need to fix the sewer...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Here's a hint for you.  YOU WILL NEVER FIX ANYTHING.
First off; many, many people would argue that things are not broken.
Second off, you can't possibly "win" because you cannot see the other
persons point of view.  Therefore there is no compromise.  Therefore
no one will listen to you.  People hate zealots.
Third off, people who are going to change things don't spend every
waking hour writing in newsgroups.  They get off their lazy butts and
do things.  They are active for change -- not just running their
mouths.
Fourthly, change required passion.  You don't have the ability to
persuade people.  You just want to tell everyone how much better you
are than everyone else.
Finally, to get things done requires working with other people. It
requires communication skills.  It required negotiation.  It required
the devotion of a great deal of time and money.  It required low
friends in high places.  You seem to have none of them.  You will just
remain a lonely, outspoken guy in spandex.
If you want to succeed, go get your meds adjusted.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I'm so glad you came out of your depressed life in the boondocks. It's
boring, ain't it?

But you think that because you made it (?), others must survive in the
asphalt jungle where they live, and if they don't like it, move to the
boondocks!

My job though is not that of a politician, who have friend$ in very
have place$, but that of telling you what's wrong to the system and
how to fix it. The examples I give are real: the Swiss, the Danish,
the British who are explaining here how much they have advanced in the
last few years.

Before you used to live in ignorance, but now you choose to remain
ignorant. Good luck with the racoons and SUVs!

[Pat]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by ComandanteBanana

Even someone as fearful as you should be able to deal with the
occasional skinned knee.  So again:  quit whining.

I still remember that guy that cited statistics like you, only to be
killed by a drunk driver.

Yes, and I've had at least four friends killed while riding in motor
vehicles.  I've had four  close family members seriously injured in
car crashes, one of whom is mildly crippled for life.
For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
fatalities.
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof.  You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike.  Who pays your
salary?  Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it. That's why
I speak about "the revolution" and coming out of the jungle. You, on
the other hand, want to deny something so obvious that you look either
out of touch with reality or have an agenda in mind, and offer no hope
other than rider training or mental toughness. How about the stupid
drivers and the stupid traffic laws out there? Haven't you noticed the
few cyclists that dare commute to work in America (a pitiful .4% of
the total commuting population) mostly ride on the sidewalks? So *YOU*
are the one defending the status quo, one where GM and Exxon thrive,
one where size matters, and rats run for their lives...
The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons from the Street
"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are
ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry. As if that
weren’t enough, the urban cyclist must carry the weight of history
along on every ride.
After a brief heyday at the turn of the twentieth century, American
cyclists fell out of the social consciousness, becoming an
afterthought when our cities were planned and built. Cyclists today
are left to navigate, like rats in a sewer, through a hard and
unsympathetic world that was not made for them. Yet, with the proper
attitude and a bit of knowledge, urban cyclists can thrive in this
hostile environment."
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Urban-Cycling-Lessons-Street/dp/0762727837/...
And we need to fix the sewer...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Here's a hint for you.  YOU WILL NEVER FIX ANYTHING.
First off; many, many people would argue that things are not broken.
Second off, you can't possibly "win" because you cannot see the other
persons point of view.  Therefore there is no compromise.  Therefore
no one will listen to you.  People hate zealots.
Third off, people who are going to change things don't spend every
waking hour writing in newsgroups.  They get off their lazy butts and
do things.  They are active for change -- not just running their
mouths.
Fourthly, change required passion.  You don't have the ability to
persuade people.  You just want to tell everyone how much better you
are than everyone else.
Finally, to get things done requires working with other people. It
requires communication skills.  It required negotiation.  It required
the devotion of a great deal of time and money.  It required low
friends in high places.  You seem to have none of them.  You will just
remain a lonely, outspoken guy in spandex.
If you want to succeed, go get your meds adjusted.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I'm so glad you came out of your depressed life in the boondocks. It's
boring, ain't it?

What makes you think I have a depressed life? It's a nice place to
live. Remember, YOU are the one always bitching about where YOU live,
not me. I like it here.

"The weather is here and I wish you were beautiful."

Post by ComandanteBanana
But you think that because you made it (?), others must survive in the
asphalt jungle where they live, and if they don't like it, move to the
boondocks!

Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Post by ComandanteBanana
My job though is not that of a politician, who have friend$ in very
have place$, but that of telling you what's wrong to the system and
how to fix it. The examples I give are real: the Swiss, the Danish,
the British who are explaining here how much they have advanced in the
last few years.

If they are so wonderful, go live there. Please. I'll start the
collection to buy you a one-way ticket.

See, yet more places that are more wonderful than where you are.

Look at all of the wonderful biking places of the world. Switzerland,
Denmark, England, NYC, SF, the rural area I live in. Guess what they
all have in common. Ready? YOU DON'T LIVE THERE. Get the hint?

Post by ComandanteBanana
Before you used to live in ignorance, but now you choose to remain
ignorant. Good luck with the racoons and SUVs!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The raccoons and the squirrels and the deer and the antelope are all
doing fine up here. Couldn't ask for anything more. Thank you for
your concern.

My motorcycle just got a clean bill of health -- it passed it's
inspection. So I'm looking forward to another season. But I don't
plan on having all of the troubles you had.

You know, a few years ago I took a motorcycle safety course from the
Motorcycle Safety Foundation. It was pretty informative and taught a
lot of good things about keep out of problems before they happened.
Maybe you should look into the bicycle version of that. If one
doesn't exist, maybe you should take the motorcycle version and learn
a thing or two about riding. I have ridden my whole life and still
learned some things at the course (plus got 10% off my car insurance
rates!!!).

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by Pat
You know, a few years ago I took a motorcycle safety course from the
Motorcycle Safety Foundation. It was pretty informative and taught a
lot of good things about keep out of problems before they happened.
Maybe you should look into the bicycle version of that. If one
doesn't exist, maybe you should take the motorcycle version and learn
a thing or two about riding. I have ridden my whole life and still
learned some things at the course (plus got 10% off my car insurance
rates!!!).

The bicycle version does exist. See http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/index.php

Yes, bicyclists who have ridden for decades, and who think themselves
experts, will still learn enough to make the course worthwhile. And
it's fun, too.

- Frank Krygowski

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Pat
You know, a few years ago I took a motorcycle safety course from the
Motorcycle Safety Foundation.  It was pretty informative and taught a
lot of good things about keep out of problems before they happened.
Maybe you should look into the bicycle version of that.  If one
doesn't exist, maybe you should take the motorcycle version and learn
a thing or two about riding.  I have ridden my whole life and still
learned some things at the course (plus got 10% off my car insurance
rates!!!).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

And what are you doing here giving opinionated advice if you hate
cyclists? Why don't you go and give a bear hug to the bears? Beware of
predators though. I ride among them, and I tell you never to trust the
beast.

[Tom Keats]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof. =A0You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike. =A0Who pays your
salary? =A0Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it.

It's not a jungle. It's a society.
Boy, are you ever warped.

Post by ComandanteBanana
That's why
I speak about "the revolution" and coming out of the jungle. You, on
the other hand, want to deny something so obvious that you look either
out of touch with reality or have an agenda in mind, and offer no hope
other than rider training or mental toughness.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You could use a good dosage of both.

Post by ComandanteBanana
How about the stupid
drivers and the stupid traffic laws out there?

A non-stupid person applies his or her acumen in
dealing with stupidity. It's dirt simple & easy.

Post by ComandanteBanana
Haven't you noticed the
few cyclists that dare commute to work in America (a pitiful .4% of
the total commuting population) mostly ride on the sidewalks?

No.

Post by ComandanteBanana
So *YOU*
are the one defending the status quo,

No, he's proposing using the status quo's
best parts, without throwing the baby out
with the bath water.

Post by ComandanteBanana
one where GM and Exxon thrive,
one where size matters, and rats run for their lives...

I aim at rats with my bike. Especially at night.
Those bastards are hard to run-over. I guess if I
could turn my lights off I'd have better luck.
If rats were GMO'd w/ squirrel genes, maybe we could
kill 'em with impunity.

Post by ComandanteBanana
The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons from the Street
"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions ..."

You obviously haven't read (or understood) the whole book.
I recommend you make the attempt. It's a good book,
intended to inform & empower riders, not scare them off,
as you so cheap-shottedly invoke and malascribe it.

In fact, screw you for so doing.

As for revolutions/velorutions, it's already happening
without you. Your services are not required.

Go knit a sweater or sumpthin'.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof. =A0You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike. =A0Who pays your
salary? =A0Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it.

It's not a jungle.  It's a society.
Boy, are you ever warped.

It's a society, but arranged like a jungle. "Survival of the
fattest" (SUVs) while the bikes have to survive on sidewalks and back
alleys. (Yesterday I expanded my survival strategy by riding a dirt
road in order to avoid the Darwinistic roads. Funny, the lions that
live there forbid bikes from sidewalks.)

Post by ComandanteBanana
That's why
I speak about "the revolution" and coming out of the jungle. You, on
the other hand, want to deny something so obvious that you look either
out of touch with reality or have an agenda in mind, and offer no hope
other than rider training or mental toughness.

             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You could use a good dosage of both.

Well, my mind I may train to get tough, but not my body. I don't think
it'll survive a collision with an SUV.

Post by ComandanteBanana
How about the stupid
drivers and the stupid traffic laws out there?

A non-stupid person applies his or her acumen in
dealing with stupidity.  It's dirt simple & easy.

"You don't have to be satisfied with America as you find it. You can
change it. I didn't like the way I found America some sixty years ago,
and I've been trying to change it ever since."
- Upton Sinclair ('The Jungle')

Post by ComandanteBanana
Haven't you noticed the
few cyclists that dare commute to work in America (a pitiful .4% of
the total commuting population) mostly ride on the sidewalks?

No.

You must live then in the best part of town, where biking is a hobby.
(I do live in the best part, and still got nothing.)

Post by ComandanteBanana
So *YOU*
are the one defending the status quo,

No, he's proposing using the status quo's
best parts, without throwing the baby out
with the bath water.

OK, you may call it "survival strategies," but not like the bikes will
ever thrive under these conditions.

Post by ComandanteBanana
one where GM and Exxon thrive,
one where size matters, and rats run for their lives...

I aim at rats with my bike.  Especially at night.
Those bastards are hard to run-over.  I guess if I
could turn my lights off I'd have better luck.
If rats were GMO'd w/ squirrel genes, maybe we could
kill 'em with impunity.

Rats are survivors. Perhaps we can learn a few lessons from them. They
go out at night, something the cyclists could do when there's less
traffic. I use the same techinique when going out in my canoe...fewer
motorboats. But don't forget the lights.

Post by ComandanteBanana
The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons from the Street
"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions ..."

You obviously haven't read (or understood) the whole book.
I recommend you make the attempt.  It's a good book,
intended to inform & empower riders, not scare them off,
as you so cheap-shottedly invoke and malascribe it.

Well, I will read it, but it makes a good assumption from the
beginning, "It's a jungle out there, but we can help you survive it --
even if you have to play rat."

In fact, screw you for so doing.
As for revolutions/velorutions, it's already happening
without you.  Your services are not required.

Coming soon...even if it to a Banana Republic in a far away land --
where there would be no vested interests.

[Pat]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof. =A0You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike. =A0Who pays your
salary? =A0Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?
- Frank Krygowski

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it.

It's not a jungle.  It's a society.
Boy, are you ever warped.

BINGO.

Post by ComandanteBanana
That's why
I speak about "the revolution" and coming out of the jungle. You, on
the other hand, want to deny something so obvious that you look either
out of touch with reality or have an agenda in mind, and offer no hope
other than rider training or mental toughness.

             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You could use a good dosage of both.

What he needs is a higher dosage of meds. They seem to be wearing
off.

Post by ComandanteBanana
How about the stupid
drivers and the stupid traffic laws out there?

A non-stupid person applies his or her acumen in
dealing with stupidity.  It's dirt simple & easy.

Post by ComandanteBanana
Haven't you noticed the
few cyclists that dare commute to work in America (a pitiful .4% of
the total commuting population) mostly ride on the sidewalks?

No.

Post by ComandanteBanana
So *YOU*
are the one defending the status quo,

No, he's proposing using the status quo's
best parts, without throwing the baby out
with the bath water.

Post by ComandanteBanana
one where GM and Exxon thrive,
one where size matters, and rats run for their lives...

I aim at rats with my bike.  Especially at night.
Those bastards are hard to run-over.  I guess if I
could turn my lights off I'd have better luck.
If rats were GMO'd w/ squirrel genes, maybe we could
kill 'em with impunity.

Post by ComandanteBanana
The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons from the Street
"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions ..."

You obviously haven't read (or understood) the whole book.
I recommend you make the attempt.  It's a good book,
intended to inform & empower riders, not scare them off,
as you so cheap-shottedly invoke and malascribe it.
In fact, screw you for so doing.
As for revolutions/velorutions, it's already happening
without you.  Your services are not required.

BINGO.

Go knit a sweater or sumpthin'.
--
Nothing is safe from me.
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
fatalities.
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof. You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike. Who pays your
salary? Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it.

You are doing NOTHING to fix it.

You are ignoring data that shows cycling is quite safe. You are doing
all you can to make cycling sound so dangerous that nobody should ever
do it. You are scaring people away from cycling.

And why? To bring about some dream world where cars are outlawed, and/
or separate bike paths lead everywhere you wish to ride? If that's
your plan, it's deluded. In fact, it's ludicrous.

The more people believe your whining and crying, the fewer people will
cycle. If cycling drops, governments will have _less_ incentive to do
anything to make it more pleasant. (Think: How many equestrian trails
has your state installed parallel to existing roads? And why should
they, when there are so few people using horses for transportation?)

You are NOT among those contributing to a solution. You are firmly in
the camp that contributes toward the problem. Your contribution is
your constant "DANGER!!! DANGER!!!" whining and wailing.

It seems to me that you've got a large group of respondents here
telling you that you are thoroughly foolish. I see nobody saying
otherwise (although, admittedly, there are contributors whose posts I
don't read).

If your whining strategy made sense, you'd be gaining supporters. But
you are not. So quit displaying your foolishness. Quit sounding like
a deluded, paranoid crybaby.

And quit discouraging bicycling. Bicycling is NOT very dangerous. It
does us no good to pretend it is.

- Frank Krygowski

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by f***@gmail.com

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by f***@gmail.com
For every bicycling fatality in the US, there are roughly 8 pedestrian
fatalities, roughly 60 motorist fatalities, and roughly 1000 heart
fatalities.
Yet you whine ONLY about the rare bike fatalities, or the
possibilities thereof.  You go out of your way to make cycling sound
much more dangerous than it is.
Great way to discourage people from ever riding a bike.  Who pays your
salary?  Is it General Motors, or is it Exxon?

Frank, you are not very smart, or you are just playing dumb. I'm
saying IT'S A JUNGLE OUT THERE because I propose to fix it.

You are doing NOTHING to fix it.
You are ignoring data that shows cycling is quite safe.  You are doing
all you can to make cycling sound so dangerous that nobody should ever
do it.  You are scaring people away from cycling.
And why?  To bring about some dream world where cars are outlawed, and/
or separate bike paths lead everywhere you wish to ride?  If that's
your plan, it's deluded.  In fact, it's ludicrous.

Your agenda is coming through. I haven't said I want to ban cars, just
have a fair share of the road.

Who do you lobby for, bikes or SUVs?

Post by f***@gmail.com
The more people believe your whining and crying, the fewer people will
cycle.  If cycling drops, governments will have _less_ incentive to do
anything to make it more pleasant.  (Think: How many equestrian trails
has your state installed parallel to existing roads?  And why should
they, when there are so few people using horses for transportation?)
You are NOT among those contributing to a solution.  You are firmly in
the camp that contributes toward the problem.  Your contribution is
your constant "DANGER!!! DANGER!!!" whining and wailing.

Yep, "LION, LION!!!" and now let's put the beast in the cage.

"The wild, cruel beast is not behind the bars of the cage. He is in
front of it" -Axel Munthe

Post by f***@gmail.com
It seems to me that you've got a large group of respondents here
telling you that you are thoroughly foolish.  I see nobody saying
otherwise (although, admittedly, there are contributors whose posts I
don't read).
If your whining strategy made sense, you'd be gaining supporters.  But
you are not.  So quit displaying your foolishness.  Quit sounding like
a deluded, paranoid crybaby.
And quit discouraging bicycling.  Bicycling is NOT very dangerous.  It
does us no good to pretend it is.

Take a tour through the American jungle, and you will see the monkeys
riding on the sidewalks. Plenty of them where I live (probably 10 to 1
that rides on the road properly).

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by ComandanteBanana
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution
(the trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas
for the lions.[...]

What type of lions eat bananas?

The ones that are actually hungry to eat them. And they have the guts
for it. It's in the Bible.

Cite?

Jehova's Witnesses argue that lions were vegetarian. And so they
picture the lion being tamed in Paradise.

But in the original Eden lions must have been vegetarian, or else they
would have eaten Adan and Eve before they were cursed.

That they banana is only logical...