Discussion:
McCain or Obama?
(too old to reply)
William
2008-10-05 18:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Jack May
2008-10-06 05:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.

McCain is far too rigid and stuck in the past to ever be a good leader with
a vision of how to solve the most important problems in the next few years
for the economy, energy, and in general for moving ahead into the 21st
century. His military experience has removed his ability to think flexibly
or to surround himself with top civilians. He has mainly surrounded
himself with people of modest capabilities
1100GS_rider
2008-10-06 14:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
--
You can trust me; I'm not like the others.
Jack May
2008-10-07 04:30:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
OK so you have proved you are world class loser. You can go away now.
1100GS_rider
2008-10-07 04:39:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
OK so you have proved you are world class loser. You can go away now.
Mindless vituperation is always easier than constructing a rational
response.
--
You can trust me; I'm not like the others.
Amy Blankenship
2008-10-07 14:38:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
OK so you have proved you are world class loser. You can go away now.
Mindless vituperation is always easier than constructing a rational
response.
Only technology laggards construct rational arguments. Get with the
program!

:-)
Jack May
2008-10-08 05:41:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amy Blankenship
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
OK so you have proved you are world class loser. You can go away now.
Mindless vituperation is always easier than constructing a rational
response.
Only technology laggards construct rational arguments. Get with the
program!
We know in all technological fields that technology laggards are constantly
lying because they do not make logical arguments and try to make up fake
argument to make others believe that their views could be true. Technology
laggard are at the bottom of society failing in almost aspects of life.
Many of them literally border line insane. It is uncomfortable to even be
around them.

Almost all of the arguments you try to make are fabrications and lies that
the technology laggards have created to try and sound sane. Your entire
view of the transportation world consist almost entirely of technology
laggard lies and fabrications. I have no respect for your theories because
you are incapable of constructing a rational basis for your arguments.
Tadej Brezina
2008-10-08 09:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amy Blankenship
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
OK so you have proved you are world class loser. You can go away now.
Mindless vituperation is always easier than constructing a rational
response.
Only technology laggards construct rational arguments. Get with the
program!
We
Who's accompanying you in "we"?
[bla bla from the JM babble kit]
--
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it.”
<Upton Sinclair in The Jungle>
Amy Blankenship
2008-10-08 14:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by Amy Blankenship
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
OK so you have proved you are world class loser. You can go away now.
Mindless vituperation is always easier than constructing a rational
response.
Only technology laggards construct rational arguments. Get with the
program!
We know in all technological fields that technology laggards are
constantly lying because they do not make logical arguments and try to
make up fake argument to make others believe that their views could be
true. Technology laggard are at the bottom of society failing in almost
aspects of life. Many of them literally border line insane. It is
uncomfortable to even be around them.
Almost all of the arguments you try to make are fabrications and lies that
the technology laggards have created to try and sound sane. Your entire
view of the transportation world consist almost entirely of technology
laggard lies and fabrications. I have no respect for your theories
because you are incapable of constructing a rational basis for your
arguments.
See? If you're not a laggard, you have to spend your time talking in
circles rather than saying anything that makes any sense.
Jack May
2008-10-11 03:16:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack May
Post by Amy Blankenship
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
OK so you have proved you are world class loser. You can go away now.
Mindless vituperation is always easier than constructing a rational
response.
Only technology laggards construct rational arguments. Get with the
Almost all of the arguments you try to make are fabrications and lies that
the technology laggards have created to try and sound sane. Your entire
view of the transportation world consist almost entirely of technology
laggard lies and fabrications. I have no respect for your theories because
Wow are you totally ignorant of what I have been saying. My main push has
been around the advanced technology that is being developed for car and
roads in the future and the effect it will have on transportation. For you
not to know that shows that you have no idea of what I have been doing.

The technology laggard information is not from me, it is from well done
marketing research well published and used by companies to plan on product
development. Again you are totally ignorant in your comments and what is
known in the world. I have presented the entire theory of how technology
evolves from the life and death of technologies to the "S" curves used by
industry to explain how technology evolves all the way to the technology
adoption curve that starts out with innovation > early adoption> early
majority> main majority> reaming users adoption > technology laggards.

Of course in you stupid drive to remain ignorant of everything we know about
how technology progresses in society, you show zero understanding of what is
going on. Typical of the lower class that understands nothing about the
world around them.

Its not theory, this well documented research by multiple technology
historians with published books on the subject and understood elsewhere in
the world and used for strategy development even by Government for example
to plan the introduction of digital TV in England.

Rant all you want to but you continue to show that you can not understand
the society above your miserable lower class existence.
Jack May
2008-10-11 02:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by 1100GS_rider
Post by Jack May
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Obama because he surrounds himself with the best people and uses them to
make the best decisions. That is the sign of a world class leader.
World class: Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayres, etc.
OK so you have proved you are world class loser. You can go away now.
Mindless vituperation is always easier than constructing a rational
response.
I have absolutely no respect for the low life crap you were spewing.
Tadej Brezina
2008-10-06 07:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
If I were eligible to vote in the US, I'd vote for Obama (as the least
bad choice with realistic chances to win it).

McCain seems to be originating from somewhere mid 19th century. And this
lady for vice president is the impersonification of conservative double
moral standards. Example: her pregnant daughter.

Tadej
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
<Martina Diel in d.t.r>
--
(PC TUW-IVV)
drydem
2008-10-08 13:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Normally I don't like endorsing a candidate
but this time I will make an exception.

I am going to vote for Obama.

Why?

Because I dont like McCain's idea of taxing healthcare benefits.
The ever rising cost of healthcare (which is already high)
will mean even with McCain's counterbalancing of fixed
tax creditsv-- will eventually be far too little to offset
the cost for the taxes especially when a catastrophic healthcare
event occurs, e.g. cancer or a spinal injury. This will
affect the old and less financially well off even more so.
It sets the stage where many whom are facing probably one of
the worst healthcare events of their lives will find
McCain's proposed government taxes on healthcare
to be significant burdensome. Multiply this by McCain's
*free market* principles that don't provide any means
or safe guards to contol medical cost or provide
minimal coverage protections and you have a recipe for
disaster. Thus it sets a stage where our
government actually becomes part of the problem
in providing healthcare rather than a solution to it.
While McCain might not have developed his healthcare
plan by himself - his endorsement and incorporation
of it in his political platform demostrates to me
why I shouldn't vote for him.
Amy Blankenship
2008-10-08 14:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Normally I don't like endorsing a candidate
but this time I will make an exception.

I am going to vote for Obama.

--------------------------------

I like Obama because he's willing to say "If it's a good idea, I will agree
with it, no matter whether I (or someone I am supposed to agree with) came
up with it or not." I think this is a rare quality in any American, let
alone a politician.
1100GS_rider
2008-10-09 02:41:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Amy Blankenship
I like Obama because he's willing to say "If it's a good idea, I will agree
with it, no matter whether I (or someone I am supposed to agree with) came
up with it or not." I think this is a rare quality in any American, let
alone a politician.
The only test would be if he actually does that. I doubt he will. In
Post by Amy Blankenship
When a President goes through the White House door,
An' does what he says he'll do.
We'll all be drinkin' free bubble-up,
Eatin' that rainbow stew.
i.e. it'll never happen.
--
You can trust me; I'm not like the others.
Clark F Morris
2008-10-08 17:50:49 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 06:52:39 -0700 (PDT), drydem
Post by drydem
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Normally I don't like endorsing a candidate
but this time I will make an exception.
I am going to vote for Obama.
Why?
Because I dont like McCain's idea of taxing healthcare benefits.
The ever rising cost of healthcare (which is already high)
will mean even with McCain's counterbalancing of fixed
tax creditsv-- will eventually be far too little to offset
the cost for the taxes especially when a catastrophic healthcare
event occurs, e.g. cancer or a spinal injury. This will
affect the old and less financially well off even more so.
It sets the stage where many whom are facing probably one of
the worst healthcare events of their lives will find
McCain's proposed government taxes on healthcare
to be significant burdensome. Multiply this by McCain's
*free market* principles that don't provide any means
or safe guards to contol medical cost or provide
minimal coverage protections and you have a recipe for
disaster. Thus it sets a stage where our
government actually becomes part of the problem
in providing healthcare rather than a solution to it.
While McCain might not have developed his healthcare
plan by himself - his endorsement and incorporation
of it in his political platform demostrates to me
why I shouldn't vote for him.
The change that McCain is promoting is to make the health insurance
NOT a taxable deduction to the employer (i.e. any employer
contribution would be considered taxable income to the recipient) and
then have an up to five thousand dollar refundable tax credit
available to the purchaser of health insurance. The effect would be
to decouple the provision of health insurance from employment. I will
look into the details to see if my reading of the Wall Street Journal
description of the proposal matches how it would work. It looks like
the proposal would handle the job changing person far better. However
I doubt that either it or Obama's proposal really comes to grip with
the huge costs of many life saving treatments. For example, at my age
of 69 should I expect the government/insurance company/etc. to pay 1
million dollars for a treatment of a terminal illness that would
extend my life be 10 years?

The McCain change looks promising on the surface and worthy of
something other than immediate dismissal. It still may not be a good
idea but the systems in both the United States and Canada have serious
problems so it is at least worth a closer look (see either Tuesday's
or Wednesday's Wall Street Journal for a start).
drydem
2008-10-09 03:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clark F Morris
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 06:52:39 -0700 (PDT), drydem
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Normally I  don't like endorsing a candidate
but this time I will make an exception.
I am going to vote for Obama.
Why?
Because I dont like McCain's idea of taxing healthcare benefits.
The ever rising cost of  healthcare (which is already high)
will mean even with McCain's counterbalancing of fixed
tax creditsv-- will eventually be far too little to offset
the cost for the taxes especially when a catastrophic healthcare
event occurs, e.g. cancer or a spinal injury. This will
affect the old and less financially well off even more so.
It sets the stage where many whom are  facing probably one of
the worst healthcare events of their lives will find
McCain's proposed government taxes on healthcare
to be significant burdensome. Multiply this by McCain's
*free market* principles that don't provide any means
or safe guards to contol medical cost or provide
minimal coverage protections and you have a recipe for
disaster.  Thus it sets a stage where our
government actually becomes part of the problem
in providing healthcare rather than a solution to it.
While McCain might not have developed his healthcare
plan  by himself - his endorsement and incorporation
of it in his political platform demostrates to me
why I shouldn't vote for him.
The change that McCain is promoting is to make the health insurance
NOT a taxable deduction to the employer (i.e. any employer
contribution would be considered taxable income to the recipient) and
then have an up to five thousand dollar refundable tax credit
available to the purchaser of health insurance.  The effect would be
to decouple the provision of health insurance from employment.  I will
look into the details to see if my reading of the Wall Street Journal
description of the proposal matches how it would work.  It looks like
the proposal would handle the job changing person far better.  However
I doubt that either it or Obama's proposal really comes to grip with
the huge costs of many life saving treatments.  For example, at my age
of 69 should I expect the government/insurance company/etc. to pay 1
million dollars for a treatment of a terminal illness that would
extend my life be 10 years?
right now any employer contribution to health insurance
is not taxed since its part of the employer's cost of doing
business and neither is the employee taxed for the health
insurance or its benefits. Cobra provisions currently allow a
limited
decoupling of the insurance after an employee is separated
from his employer - What I don't like is the tax on health
care since I know that chronic cancer treatment can cost
about tensof thousands of dollars each year of treatment
- even with health insurance the patient is paying several
thousands of dollars per year. An Afghanistan or Iraqi War
veteran returning without a leg or arm will need that
prosthesis maintenance and eventually it must be
replaced after five or seven years. The current trend
is for medical care cost to go up - so when I hear that
McCain wants to tax health care benefits - that
automatically generates a negative gut reaction from
me. That kind of extra tax is going to push people over
the financial edge - if the medical bills and wall street
don't do that first.. . It's not that I am that all excited
over what Obama is advocating; it's just that
McCain's plan sounds so much more worst for the
average person than our current flawed system -
that I find myself questioning whose side is
McCain? What kind of man makes that error in
judgement?


With respect to health care reform - I'd
like to see more cost-benefit studies comparing new
drugs/therapies with older generic drugs/established
therapies. For example, what is the 2 year
survival rate for open heart surgery in Lincoln
Nebraska? How do the various drugs use
to control diabetes compare? It's not like
patients or doctors can lookup that kind
of data in Consumer Reports. Federal leadership
would be nice. I'd like Americans to enjoy the same
lower drug pricing structures as other countries.
I'd like to limit EKG tests which for the most I
think are non-essential medical test. I'd like more
medicare/medicad fraud inspectors. I would
also consider a pilot program similar to that
used by the Japanese healthcare model
which relies on having smaller neighborhood
health clinic. I'd also like to expand the
medical/healthcare program whichtargets
underserved areas in the USA. For cancer
research, molecular profiling research is a
good place to start ( chemotherapy curative
rates are linked to matching chemo agents
with a tumor cell's genetic makeup). If
cancer treatment is going to cost that much
I'd like more cancer survivors for that effort and
cost. Public health could also be advance by
providing federal funding for municipal water
treatment (sewage treatment facilities) and
putting more muscle behind cleaning up
the environment. Of course - it's not going
to happen - but atleast we could ask...
Jack May
2008-10-11 03:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by William
Who are all you guys going to vote for?
Normally I don't like endorsing a candidate
but this time I will make an exception.

I am going to vote for Obama.

Why?

Because I dont like McCain's idea of taxing healthcare benefits.
The ever rising cost of healthcare (which is already high)
will mean even with McCain's counterbalancing of fixed
tax creditsv-- will eventually be far too little to offset
the cost for the taxes especially when a catastrophic healthcare
event occurs, e.g. cancer or a spinal injury. This will
affect the old and less financially well off even more so.
It sets the stage where many whom are facing probably one of
the worst healthcare events of their lives will find
McCain's proposed government taxes on healthcare
to be significant burdensome. Multiply this by McCain's
*free market* principles that don't provide any means
or safe guards to contol medical cost or provide
minimal coverage protections and you have a recipe for
disaster. Thus it sets a stage where our
government actually becomes part of the problem
in providing healthcare rather than a solution to it.
While McCain might not have developed his healthcare
plan by himself - his endorsement and incorporation
of it in his political platform demostrates to me
why I shouldn't vote for him.

I am not worried about details which quickly go away inside the White House.
I am mainly concerned if the person has the internal qualities that will
produce a good President. I obviously can be wrong, but my feeling at
this time is that Obama has a strong chance of becoming one of our great
Presidents in history.

The too liberal rough edges will be knocked off by the reality of dealing
with the real world in the White House and he will become far more
practical. Clinton has commented on how he went through that same process
of being reformed by the real world responsibilities and stark reality of
being the President.

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