What American Cities are Missing: Bikes by the Thousands

[donquijote1954]

Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks? It's
healthy for you as well as for your pocket and for the environment.
And it can be combined with public transportation for greater
flexibility.

Well, Paris is just making that possible, but France is the site of
the Tour de France. That surely is behind that overdue decision. But
hey, we do have a champion or two to show. And we even have some
politicians who are into bicycling and not SUVing.

Reality check, it ain't happening here in your lifetime. Too many
vested interests.

That would take a revolution, but that's another subject...


"Official Washington likes to think that it is bicycle-friendly. But
we often hear a different story, involving dodging bricks, menacing
drivers, annoying registrations, and brazen theives. For all but the
most hardcore cyclists among us, the thought of negotiating D.C.'s
streets on two wheels is harrowing, which is a shame. Washington is
blessed with compact development, historic neighborhoods, and
beautiful scenery which may be a bit spread out to enjoy on foot, but
is easily covered by bike. Many who would love to tour the miles
between Arlington Cemetary and the Capitol and beyond on two wheels
are relegated to tour busses and Metro, which both limits their
mobility and annoys the hell out of commuters. So, in the spirit of
the upcoming Bike to Work Day on May 18, we pass on a solution from
across the pond: municipal bikes.

In Paris, city officials have long wrestled with similar issues:
Thousands of sightseers filling the roads with cars (and the air with
exhaust) while attempting to visit its many historic sites. In
response, the Parisian goverment is launching an effort this summer to
provide cheap rental bikes. Lots of them.
On July 15, the day after Bastille Day, Parisians will wake up to
discover thousands of low-cost rental bikes at hundreds of high-tech
bicycle stations scattered throughout the city, an ambitious program
to cut traffic, reduce pollution, improve parking and enhance the
city's image as a greener, quieter, more relaxed place.

By the end of the year, organizers and city officials say, there
should be 20,600 bikes at 1,450 stations -- or about one station every
250 yards across the entire city. Based on experience elsewhere --
particularly in Lyon, France's third-largest city, which launched a
similar system two years ago -- regular users of the bikes will ride
them almost for free.

At first, we cringe at the thought of hundreds of street-clogging lost
tourists and a cottage industry of bike thefts. With more examination,
though, there's a lot to like. Providing bikes in those numbers
creates a critical mass that changes the way the city deals with them
-- pushing DDOT to crate a more continuous and extensive bike network
in the city. Streets and paths appropriate for bikers would get even
more so, which pulls bicycles off of streets that aren't, lessening
the dangerous competition with autos.

In Denmark, Copenhagen's City Bikes program has been established for
years, resulting in huge shifts in transportation, pollution, and the
city's image. As for theft, both Copenhagen and Helsinki's bicycle
programs have actually reduced it. The free bike use provided by the
program both eliminates the need for theft and removes a considerable
market for resale.

Now that we've got a triathlete Mayor, isn't it time to get Washington
some bikes?"

http://www.dcist.com/2007/05/02/what_were_missi.php

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

THE BANANA REVOLUTION
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40

BIKE FOR PEACE
http://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

[George Conklin]

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

[Nobody]

On Wed, 16 May 2007 19:08:13 GMT, "George Conklin"

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

And for the obverse: come visit cities of the like of Vancouver BC,
Seattle WA, and Portland OR in the fall, winter, and spring.

Why the Bloody Hell would anyone ride a bicycle, and risk getting
drowned in any month from October to April?

The Bicycle Lobby lives in a Dream World.

[Dane Buson]

Post by Nobody
On Wed, 16 May 2007 19:08:13 GMT, "George Conklin"

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

And for the obverse: come visit cities of the like of Vancouver BC,
Seattle WA, and Portland OR in the fall, winter, and spring.

Oh, you mean like where I commute by bike year round? And where I see
people also commuting year round by bike? If you live in Seattle, you
don't let little things like rain stop you from doing things.

Post by Nobody
Why the Bloody Hell would anyone ride a bicycle, and risk getting
drowned in any month from October to April?

-- copied from a previous post of mine --

My reasons look more like this:
1. Enjoyment
2. Exercise as part of everyday life [1]
3. Money saving - I save a shedload of money by not having a second car.
4. Ease of parking [3]
5. I enjoy working on my bikes - I'm mechanically inclined
6. The social aspect - I see and talk to people on my bike I would never
get a chance to see in a car.[4]
7. It is often faster. In many cases [5] I get home faster from work
than the people driving.[6]
8. Pastry - I eat pastry instead of filling my car with gasoline.
9. Engineering reasons [7]
10. I don't like driving. [8]
11. Greeny-weeny reasons.
12. By riding my bike I build up self-righteousness points that i can
spend on making my friends feel bad about themselves for driving.
[9]

Post by Nobody
The Bicycle Lobby lives in a Dream World.

I would say in a better world, but you're allowed your opinion.

And god, can't you people stop replying to DQ's trolls? Killfile the
idiot already.

[1] I used to weigh 280 lbs, I weigh about 200 now. My father and
brother are both type II diabetics. [2]
[2] Additionally I'm a computer programmer, so my everyday job is very
sedentary.
[3] No joke this. You try and fight for parking at my favorite Asian
grocer with the little old Chinese ladies. F$#% that noise. I roll up
and park right at the front of the store. Parking at Pike Place market
is a dream on the bicycle.
[4] Footnote elided
[5] Baseball games, snow, heavy rains, wind storms. This last winter
many of my coworkers were trapped for many hours on roads completely
jammed with traffic caused by downed trees and powerlines. One poor guy
spent most of the night in his car. I rolled up to the downed sections
picked up my bike, walked around, and was home about 15 minutes later
than usual.
[6] The best case - where the highway was completely empty - it used to
take me 25 minutes to get to work. It takes 40 minutes by bike. 30
minutes extra a day. In return I get 80 minuts of quality exercise I
enjoy. And of course on the many days where traffic was not so good it
could take much much longer in the car.
[7] Using a 3000 lb car to move a single 200 lb person from point to
point is just an inefficient solution. It's always grated at my
engineering sensibilities. Not to mention the huge amount of
infrastructure needed.
[8] I'm far too concious of just how much damage you can do with a car
to yourself of other people. Driving is fine at 2am when I'm the only
idiot on the road, but how often does that happen?
[9] That's a joke people. God, don't you people have any sense of humour
at all?

[Tom Keats]

Post by Nobody
On Wed, 16 May 2007 19:08:13 GMT, "George Conklin"

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

And for the obverse: come visit cities of the like of Vancouver BC,
Seattle WA, and Portland OR in the fall, winter, and spring.
Why the Bloody Hell would anyone ride a bicycle, and risk getting
drowned in any month from October to April?

As a lifelong cycling car-free Vancouverite, I avow bicycling
is my best option in wet weather. My inexpensive but effective
rain gear keeps me nice & dry -- drier than if I hoof it.
Fenders, and turning the bike lights on (even in the gloomy/
overcast/stormy/rainy daytime) complete my wet weather
defense system.

And cycling in the rain is much more pleasant than riding on
some steamy, crowded, jerky, disease-ridden, slow public
transit bus.

Vancouver drivers and cyclists are becoming quite well
habituated to the presence of each other. From what
I've read and heard, the same seems to be in effect in
Seattle and Portland (OR). I do know for sure that
each of these cities enjoy thriving bicycling cultures.

Post by Nobody
The Bicycle Lobby lives in a Dream World.

I note many drivers experience a false sense of privacy
as they sit in their cars, whistfully picking their noses.
Dream world indeed!

Anyways, we're not big enough to have a "Lobby" (despite
the grandiose affectations of such as the League of
American Bicyclists.) At best we have a bunch of
hat-in-hand advocates who can't even agree on what's
best for the bicycling community.

I think it's because there are at least /two/ major
bicycling communities (probably more,) each with
their respective needs & wants, and the advocates
unsuccessfully try to generalize what's best for all,
and end up competing against each other. So we're
also too fragmented to have a Lobby.

I used to have inclinations toward cycling advocacy.
Now I have inclinations toward what's good for the
City in which I live -- and citizens' mobility within
the City is a big part of "what's good". It doesn't
matter to the property-tax-paying businesses in the
City how their clienteles get there, as long as they
and their money get there.

I guess this is where some driver might pipe up and
say: "I can't get there soon enough with all these
bikes in my way!"

And some cycling advocate might say: "I can't get there
at all with all these cars in my way!"

And then there'll be those who hold their peace, and
quietly, safely get to where they want to be, regardless
of their transport of choice. No fuss, no muss, in all
kinds of weather.

A pleasant urban environment that doesn't get its citizens
anxiously grinding their teeth in their sleep or coming down
with athsma is also good.

[Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]]

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

Wow George your a dick not going to lie.

[Dane Buson]

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

Wow George your a dick not going to lie.

That should be "Wow George, you're a dick. I'm not going to lie."

See how much more erudite you sound now? [1]

It's "your", as in "your crack pipe".

It's "you're", as in "you're dumb as a bag of hammers".

[1] I'm not a member of the George Conklin Fan Club, but don't mangle
the language for Jehu's sake.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Dane Buson

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

Wow George your a dick not going to lie.

That should be "Wow George, you're a dick. I'm not going to lie."
See how much more erudite you sound now? [1]
It's "your", as in "your crack pipe".
It's "you're", as in "you're dumb as a bag of hammers".

Grammar and spelling lessons are like water off a duck's back with this
guy...

[g***@yahoo.com]

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2007/04/17/21_LedeChart.pdf
While not a huge percentage, the number of people who commute by bike in
Portland and Seattle (compiled from census data) are large enough to show
up in the data.

And considering what I know of the way people drive in India, I'm not sure
that his request for "unnecessary risks" are met there either.

Cars running stop signs and running over bicyclists seems to be a
particular problem in Portland these days. There was a time not too long
ago when people actually paid attention to their driving here. That isn't
the case any more.

At least here you can put your bike in a covered bike locker (for
considerably more than a few cents a day).

[donquijote1954]

Post by g***@yahoo.com

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks?

Go to India to fulfill your dream. They do that now. You can even lock
your bicycle up at the train station and let it sit in the rain all day for
a few cents.

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2007/04/17/21_LedeChart.pdf
While not a huge percentage, the number of people who commute by bike in
Portland and Seattle (compiled from census data) are large enough to show
up in the data.
And considering what I know of the way people drive in India, I'm not sure
that his request for "unnecessary risks" are met there either.
Cars running stop signs and running over bicyclists seems to be a
particular problem in Portland these days. There was a time not too long
ago when people actually paid attention to their driving here. That isn't
the case any more.
At least here you can put your bike in a covered bike locker (for
considerably more than a few cents a day).

I guess then I'm going to have to go to Holland or something. Or
simply load my bike on a car or bus and go some place where neither I
run unnecessary risks nor I do something practical with it. Forget
Global Warming, survival takes priority, right?

[drydem]

One of the obstacles with regard to using a bicycle in my town is
that the local shopping centers forbid them. When I asked one of
the shopping center's management for the reason they're ban
bicycles from their property, they told me that their insurance
requires it.

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks? It's
healthy for you as well as for your pocket and for the environment.
And it can be combined with public transportation for greater
flexibility.

[Free Lunch]

On 16 May 2007 17:56:11 -0700, in misc.transport.urban-transit

Post by drydem
One of the obstacles with regard to using a bicycle in my town is
that the local shopping centers forbid them. When I asked one of
the shopping center's management for the reason they're ban
bicycles from their property, they told me that their insurance
requires it.

Ask them for the evidence. Tell them you want to see the insurance
policy that says that. If the policy actually says that, then start
screaming to your state's insurance commissioner's office. There is no
reason to allow such a limitation -- still my guess is that he made it
up to deflect responsibility.

Post by drydem

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks? It's
healthy for you as well as for your pocket and for the environment.
And it can be combined with public transportation for greater
flexibility.

[donquijote1954]

Post by drydem
One of the obstacles with regard to using a bicycle in my town is
that the local shopping centers forbid them. When I asked one of
the shopping center's management for the reason they're ban
bicycles from their property, they told me that their insurance
requires it.

They figure that cyclists would only spend peanuts, so they are not
their priority. I'd try though not to feed them in any way. Just go
with the ones that take you into account. Boycott is a great thing!

[Bill Sornson]

donquijote1954 wrote:

Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

[Tom Keats]

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

That was Bill B. I picture him tearfully hugging
the hood of his 440 Charger[*] and proclaiming: "I'll
never leave you! 'Til the end of time! You 'n me!"

DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.


cheers,
Tom

[*] Gas in Vancouver is $1.30+(Cdn)/litre

[Bill Sornson]

Post by Tom Keats

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

That was Bill B. I picture him tearfully hugging
the hood of his 440 Charger[*] and proclaiming: "I'll
never leave you! 'Til the end of time! You 'n me!"

Hey, my very first car was a (used) 1968 Dodge Charger with a 440.
(Fire-engine red, black vinyl top.) I'm truly lucky to have survived
teenage stupidity and that much power. (Especially with relatively skinny
14" wheels/tires.)

Post by Tom Keats
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.

Ah, I thought he included a promise to take his stylings elsewhere as part
of the parting. My bad.

Bill "anyone taking bets on when Mensa Baka will be backa?" S.

[Tom Keats]

Post by Bill Sornson

Post by Tom Keats

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

That was Bill B. I picture him tearfully hugging
the hood of his 440 Charger[*] and proclaiming: "I'll
never leave you! 'Til the end of time! You 'n me!"

Hey, my very first car was a (used) 1968 Dodge Charger with a 440.
(Fire-engine red, black vinyl top.) I'm truly lucky to have survived
teenage stupidity and that much power. (Especially with relatively skinny
14" wheels/tires.)

Bill still Peter Pan'dly lingers there.

My very first car would have been a '48 Canadian Willys jeep
with a real Jeep engine c/w armoured oil pan. Handed down
from father to son to son. I would have been the next son,
but my mom gave the ol' death trap away to some "friends"
she didn't really like, before I could get my hands on it.
It was a hardtop faux woody. One of its characteristics
was that it could run on three wheels should one fall off --
which sometimes happened. Another other was, you could flick
a cigarette toward the windshield and it would instantly get
sucked out the no-draft.

Post by Bill Sornson

Post by Tom Keats
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.

Ah, I thought he included a promise to take his stylings elsewhere as part
of the parting. My bad.

He was asked to, but his reply was typically wishy-washy.

Post by Bill Sornson
Bill "anyone taking bets on when Mensa Baka will be backa?" S.

Mention of Dodge 440s will be irresistable to him,
that ol' fat-ass SUV NASCAR Lance Armstrong.


cheers,
Tom

[donquijote1954]

Post by Tom Keats
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.

For the cyclists the choice is clear: Revolution or die! Well, there's
another solution: get a stationary bike and work out from the comfort
and safety of your home.

Remember Orwell: "At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is
a revolutionary act!"

[George Conklin]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Tom Keats
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.

For the cyclists the choice is clear: Revolution or die! Well, there's
another solution: get a stationary bike and work out from the comfort
and safety of your home.
Remember Orwell: "At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is
a revolutionary act!"

At least you can't fall off the bike at home and get hurt.

[John Kane]

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Tom Keats
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.

For the cyclists the choice is clear: Revolution or die! Well, there's
another solution: get a stationary bike and work out from the comfort
and safety of your home.
Remember Orwell: "At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is
a revolutionary act!"

At least you can't fall off the bike at home and get hurt.

Since falls in the home are a major cause of injury, I would not take
that as sure. If you can fall off a chair or fall out of bed there is
no reason to assume that falling off an exercise bicycle is
impossible.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by John Kane

Post by George Conklin

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Tom Keats
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.

For the cyclists the choice is clear: Revolution or die! Well, there's
another solution: get a stationary bike and work out from the comfort
and safety of your home.
Remember Orwell: "At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is
a revolutionary act!"

At least you can't fall off the bike at home and get hurt.

Since falls in the home are a major cause of injury, I would not take
that as sure. If you can fall off a chair or fall out of bed there is
no reason to assume that falling off an exercise bicycle is
impossible.

Also, a spin bicycle can break your leg and I've injured my tailbone on one
as well.

-Amy

[r***@aol.com]

Post by Tom Keats

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

That was Bill B. I picture him tearfully hugging
the hood of his 440 Charger[*] and proclaiming: "I'll
never leave you! 'Til the end of time! You 'n me!"
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.

Heeyargg!!!!

If I had a Charger I would probably hug it though.

The Revolution will in fact be televised. So Mr. Donk
can watch it from the comfort of his living room.

[donquijote1954]

Post by r***@aol.com

Post by Tom Keats

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

That was Bill B. I picture him tearfully hugging
the hood of his 440 Charger[*] and proclaiming: "I'll
never leave you! 'Til the end of time! You 'n me!"
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.

Heeyargg!!!!
If I had a Charger I would probably hug it though.
The Revolution will in fact be televised. So Mr. Donk
can watch it from the comfort of his living room.-

You calling me a couch potato? No, I want to be in the Bicycle Victory
Parade to end at the Unknown Fallen Cyclist, a monument to all those
who have fallen for the cause of the environment and fun
transportation. Do you agree with it?

[Bob]

Post by Tom Keats
DonQui just said he was quitting riding his
bike 'cuz he couldn't hack it. But apparently
he still fancies himself as some sort of lyric,
all-talk/no-walk revolutionary/shit-disturber
who wants other people to do his "revolution"
for him.
cheers,
Tom

Well put.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

[donquijote1954]

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...

--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--

It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...

Hillary: gender

Obama: race

and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

[Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

[George Conklin]

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

Outhouses are also great for the environment.

[Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George you are a dick by nature.

[George Conklin]

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George you are a dick by nature.

Oh come on. Did you not read that national story about people who wanted to
save energy and thus gave up on toilet paper? And my chemical toilet for
my travel trailer, one from UK, said, "Dilute 3 to 1 and place in the
garden." It did not use poison as do the Monomatics in the USA. I am also
restoring the outhouse on the farm.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George you are a dick by nature.

Oh come on. Did you not read that national story about people who wanted to
save energy and thus gave up on toilet paper? And my chemical toilet for
my travel trailer, one from UK, said, "Dilute 3 to 1 and place in the
garden." It did not use poison as do the Monomatics in the USA. I am also
restoring the outhouse on the farm.

Outhouses are old technology. Look at composting toilets :-)

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin
Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George you are a dick by nature.

The grammar and spelling are perfect. Now, if we can expand your vocabulary
and hone your with where you don't need to use profanity to express this ort
of sentiment, you'll be a respectable debater...

[Pat]

On May 18, 10:10 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin
Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George you are a dick by nature.

The grammar and spelling are perfect. Now, if we can expand your vocabulary
and hone your with where you don't need to use profanity to express this ort
of sentiment, you'll be a respectable debater...

You are right, but Mr. Cool is getting better. To be correct, he
should have said:

"George. By nature, you are a dick."

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Pat
On May 18, 10:10 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin
Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George you are a dick by nature.

The grammar and spelling are perfect. Now, if we can expand your vocabulary
and hone your with where you don't need to use profanity to express this ort
of sentiment, you'll be a respectable debater...

You are right, but Mr. Cool is getting better. To be correct, he
"George. By nature, you are a dick."

Actually, I think his big issue was a missing piece of punctuation.

George, you are a dick by nature.

or

George: you are a dick by nature.

And of course my own spell checker missed that I meant "hone your wit",
rather than "hone your with."

-Amy

[Pat]

On May 18, 10:53 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Pat
On May 18, 10:10 am, "Amy Blankenship"

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin
Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George you are a dick by nature.

The grammar and spelling are perfect. Now, if we can expand your vocabulary
and hone your with where you don't need to use profanity to express this ort
of sentiment, you'll be a respectable debater...

You are right, but Mr. Cool is getting better. To be correct, he
"George. By nature, you are a dick."

Actually, I think his big issue was a missing piece of punctuation.
George, you are a dick by nature.
or
George: you are a dick by nature.
And of course my own spell checker missed that I meant "hone your wit",
rather than "hone your with."

You are forgiven. Only George would care. Within reason, I think
spelling, grammatical errors, and typo are acceptable. But as I said,
within reason.

Last time I wrote columns for the local paper, the editor gave he huge
leaway for grammer once he realized that I write in the style that I
speak, so it is much less formal, less accurate, and less
grammatical. It is interesting how much differently we speak from how
we write.

Post by Amy Blankenship
-Amy

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Pat
On May 18, 10:53 am, "Amy Blankenship"

...

Post by Pat

Post by Amy Blankenship
George: you are a dick by nature.
And of course my own spell checker missed that I meant "hone your wit",
rather than "hone your with."

You are forgiven. Only George would care. Within reason, I think
spelling, grammatical errors, and typo are acceptable. But as I said,
within reason.
Last time I wrote columns for the local paper, the editor gave he huge
leaway for grammer once he realized that I write in the style that I
speak, so it is much less formal, less accurate, and less
grammatical. It is interesting how much differently we speak from how
we write.

With me, it depends. With my mother or my sister and often with my husband,
I speak as I write. With anyone else, I tend to drop into how they speak as
much as is possible, as it makes for easier communication. Being raised by
an English teacher means that my natural speech is probably more "correct"
than many.

-Amy

[Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George Conklin City
The Big Asshole

[George Conklin]

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

Outhouses are also great for the environment.

George Conklin City
The Big Asshole

Outhouses are the latest environmental craze buddy. Just read the
newspapers. They are still legal in NC, but new ones are not. There are a
whole lot of them still around. Great when the power goes off.

[Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]]

Post by George Conklin
Outhouses are the latest environmental craze buddy. Just read the
newspapers. They are still legal in NC, but new ones are not. There are a
whole lot of them still around. Great when the power goes off.

Yes because we all know that Tolits are powered by electricty.

[Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]]

Post by George Conklin

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

Outhouses are also great for the environment.

O good one George! Great show!

[Sancho Panza]

Post by Mr.Cool [Defender of Cities]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Biking is good all around. It saves you money with the lack of gas
needed to ride a bike,
it gets you in better shape and benifits your health, and a bike is
just more fun to ride
then a car. Even if you are a hard core conservative you still can
agree that not using
gas is good for the environment.

How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

[David Kerber]

In article <cua3i.169$***@newsfe12.lga>, ***@xhotmail.com
says...

...

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

[Sancho Panza]

Post by David Kerber
says...
...

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

[David Kerber]

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by David Kerber
says...
...

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

Enough that you lose that 1/2 a month over the course of a winter.

[Claire Petersky]

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by David Kerber
says...

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

Enough that you lose that 1/2 a month over the course of a winter.

The ice bike site (http://www.icebike.com) is the go-to resource on
bicycling in the snow and on ice.

I confess, I am happier to drown :-) :-) :-) here bicycling through the
winter in the Seattle area, instead. Yeah, it rains. You know what happens?
You get wet. Wet does not equal cold, or uncomfortable. Wet things and wet
people become dry after a while, too. It's not a big deal, unless you're a
total weanie.

[David Kerber]

In article <eDj3i.16740$***@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
***@mouse-potato.com says...

...

Post by Claire Petersky

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

Enough that you lose that 1/2 a month over the course of a winter.

The ice bike site (http://www.icebike.com) is the go-to resource on
bicycling in the snow and on ice.
I confess, I am happier to drown :-) :-) :-) here bicycling through the
winter in the Seattle area, instead. Yeah, it rains. You know what happens?
You get wet. Wet does not equal cold, or uncomfortable. Wet things and wet
people become dry after a while, too. It's not a big deal, unless you're a
total weanie.

For me, I'd rather ride in dry cold weather than cool wet weather.

[o***@hotmail.com]

Post by David Kerber
...

Post by Claire Petersky

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

Enough that you lose that 1/2 a month over the course of a winter.

The ice bike site (http://www.icebike.com) is the go-to resource on
bicycling in the snow and on ice.
I confess, I am happier to drown :-) :-) :-) here bicycling through the
winter in the Seattle area, instead. Yeah, it rains. You know what happens?
You get wet. Wet does not equal cold, or uncomfortable. Wet things and wet
people become dry after a while, too. It's not a big deal, unless you're a
total weanie.

For me, I'd rather ride in dry cold weather than cool wet weather.
--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

If the 50 inches of the white stuff is so dry, that must mean it is
hanging around quite a long time. And not helping cyclists much.

[John Kane]

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by David Kerber
...

Post by Claire Petersky

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

Enough that you lose that 1/2 a month over the course of a winter.

The ice bike site (http://www.icebike.com) is the go-to resource on
bicycling in the snow and on ice.
I confess, I am happier to drown :-) :-) :-) here bicycling through the
winter in the Seattle area, instead. Yeah, it rains. You know what happens?
You get wet. Wet does not equal cold, or uncomfortable. Wet things and wet
people become dry after a while, too. It's not a big deal, unless you're a
total weanie.

For me, I'd rather ride in dry cold weather than cool wet weather.
--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

If the 50 inches of the white stuff is so dry, that must mean it is
hanging around quite a long time. And not helping cyclists much.

As long as the road is plowed how cares?

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[Sancho Panza]

Post by John Kane

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by David Kerber
...

Post by Claire Petersky

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in
the
Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

Enough that you lose that 1/2 a month over the course of a winter.

The ice bike site (http://www.icebike.com) is the go-to resource on
bicycling in the snow and on ice.
I confess, I am happier to drown :-) :-) :-) here bicycling through the
winter in the Seattle area, instead. Yeah, it rains. You know what happens?
You get wet. Wet does not equal cold, or uncomfortable. Wet things and wet
people become dry after a while, too. It's not a big deal, unless you're a
total weanie.

For me, I'd rather ride in dry cold weather than cool wet weather.
--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

If the 50 inches of the white stuff is so dry, that must mean it is
hanging around quite a long time. And not helping cyclists much.

As long as the road is plowed how cares?

As fabled as the plowing is along the Northern Tier, it still cannot make
bicycling after a storm anything but a royal pain. Can anyone spell
s-l-u-s-h or are we still maintaining how dry my streets are?

[John Mara]

Post by Sancho Panza
As fabled as the plowing is along the Northern Tier, it still cannot make
bicycling after a storm anything but a royal pain. Can anyone spell
s-l-u-s-h or are we still maintaining how dry my streets are?

Skidding cars are a hazard when riding a bike in snow.

--
John Mara

[John Kane]

Post by David Kerber
...

Post by Claire Petersky

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by David Kerber

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

Enough that you lose that 1/2 a month over the course of a winter.

The ice bike site (http://www.icebike.com) is the go-to resource on
bicycling in the snow and on ice.
I confess, I am happier to drown :-) :-) :-) here bicycling through the
winter in the Seattle area, instead. Yeah, it rains. You know what happens?
You get wet. Wet does not equal cold, or uncomfortable. Wet things and wet
people become dry after a while, too. It's not a big deal, unless you're a
total weanie.

For me, I'd rather ride in dry cold weather than cool wet weather.

I'm with you. Personally I prefer 30 C and sun but -10 and sun beats
+5 and rain any day.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[John Kane]

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by David Kerber
says...
...

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

And the average snowfall is _____?

Probably no more than it is in Ottawa where quite a few people ride
all winter. Snow is seldom a serious problem until it is bad enough
to also force cars off the streets.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[John Kane]

Post by David Kerber
says...
...

Post by Sancho Panza
How many months a year can one ride a bike to and from work in the Twin
Cities?

About 11-1/2.

You only take 2 weeks holidays?

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[Bob]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against.

"We" are discriminated against? You said you were quitting riding so
you are no longer part of the "we" here- unless your "we" is
restricted to spammers in which case you *are* discriminated against
and rightly so.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

[donquijote1954]

Post by Bob

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against.

"We" are discriminated against? You said you were quitting riding so
you are no longer part of the "we" here- unless your "we" is
restricted to spammers in which case you *are* discriminated against
and rightly so.

Well, I've effectively been intimidated by the reckless drivers out
there. You want me to be a martyr of the revolution?

I think I rather follow my own advice of "the big fish eats the little
fish, unless the little fish get organized." So, I'll do it in a
group.

[rotten]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Why is it a president's responsibility to push bikes and small cars?
How about state and local government? And what about freedom of
choice? Not a big fan, eh?

[donquijote1954]

Post by rotten

Post by donquijote1954

Post by Bill Sornson
Didn't you say you were leaving Usenet? (Or at least the cycling
newsgroups?)

I said "stop biking" as a way of getting around, but I guess I'm not
alone in screaming that we are discriminated against. Things good
though are happening in Paris that I doubt wil ever happen in this
country. I guess our politicians are looking for the wrong issues,
which regrettably mobilize the sheep...
--How about a Congress and President with guts enough to push for
small, economical cars, and penalizing the whoppers?--
It makes sense but I don't see even the most liberal candidates
talking about real solutions for the real world. The issues are at
hand turn me off...
Hillary: gender
Obama: race
and the rest are for those who don't have real solutions either but
are against gays, abortion, etc. Anyone for bikes and small cars?

Why is it a president's responsibility to push bikes and small cars?
How about state and local government? And what about freedom of
choice? Not a big fan, eh?-

What "freedom of choice" when you got to put your life on the line to
go to the market? Our president though took us to a war to keep the
status quo. Can we only get leadership to lead us into war? Now big
money is going into tanks and planes, not EVs and bike lanes.

[oilfreeandhappy]

Don't hold your breath for America. With our obesity rates, lack of
adequate cycling facilities, along with our worship of the automobile,
there may not be much happening in the near future. I think what
America needs is a totally CAR-FREE city. If an investor decided to
take this on, he would have instant advertising, merely from the
publicity.
----
Jim Gagnepain
www.OilFreeandHappy.com

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks? It's
healthy for you as well as for your pocket and for the environment.
And it can be combined with public transportation for greater
flexibility.

[donquijote1954]

Post by oilfreeandhappy
Don't hold your breath for America. With our obesity rates, lack of
adequate cycling facilities, along with our worship of the automobile,
there may not be much happening in the near future. I think what
America needs is a totally CAR-FREE city. If an investor decided to
take this on, he would have instant advertising, merely from the
publicity.
----
Jim Gagnepainwww.OilFreeandHappy.com

No I won't. It's the tyranny of the inefficient over the efficient,
the obese over the fit and the stupid over the smart...

(dialog between the couch potato and his wife)

"Honey, hand me the TV dinner and the beer, 'cause I'm too tired after
working so many hours, and I wanna watch the news. You know it's a
dangerous world out there. One cyclist killed by a hit and run, and
two more dead soldiers in Iraq. And the elections... Sweety, have you
decided who to vote for in the next elections?"

[rotten]

Post by oilfreeandhappy
Don't hold your breath for America. With our obesity rates, lack of
adequate cycling facilities, along with our worship of the automobile,
there may not be much happening in the near future. I think what
America needs is a totally CAR-FREE city. If an investor decided to
take this on, he would have instant advertising, merely from the
publicity.

The closest they could come to at this point is Portland, Oregan and
from what I've heard even people there don't want to ban cars. The
reason there are no car-free cities is that people... believe it or
not... would rather drive cars than use other forms of transportation.

[Dane Buson]

Post by rotten

Post by oilfreeandhappy
Don't hold your breath for America. With our obesity rates, lack of
adequate cycling facilities, along with our worship of the automobile,
there may not be much happening in the near future. I think what
America needs is a totally CAR-FREE city. If an investor decided to
take this on, he would have instant advertising, merely from the
publicity.

The closest they could come to at this point is Portland, Oregan and
from what I've heard even people there don't want to ban cars. The
reason there are no car-free cities is that people... believe it or
not... would rather drive cars than use other forms of transportation.

Point of fact: While there are not (yet) car free cities. There are
car free neighborhoods. In fact, they're rather a trend over in Germany
at the moment.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1220/p01s03-woeu.html

http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/bank/idea.php?ideaId=378

http://www.autofrei-wohnen.de/panke0summary.html

[donquijote1954]

Post by Dane Buson

Post by rotten

Post by oilfreeandhappy
Don't hold your breath for America. With our obesity rates, lack of
adequate cycling facilities, along with our worship of the automobile,
there may not be much happening in the near future. I think what
America needs is a totally CAR-FREE city. If an investor decided to
take this on, he would have instant advertising, merely from the
publicity.

The closest they could come to at this point is Portland, Oregan and
from what I've heard even people there don't want to ban cars. The
reason there are no car-free cities is that people... believe it or
not... would rather drive cars than use other forms of transportation.

Point of fact: While there are not (yet) car free cities. There are
car free neighborhoods. In fact, they're rather a trend over in Germany
at the moment.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1220/p01s03-woeu.html
http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/bank/idea.php?ideaId=378
http://www.autofrei-wohnen.de/panke0summary.html

"FREIBURG, GERMANY - It's pickup time at the Vauban kindergarten here
at the edge of the Black Forest, but there's not a single minivan
waiting for the kids. Instead, a convoy of helmet-donning moms -
bicycle trailers in tow - pedal up to the entrance."

If you do that here the SUV-driving soccer moms will scream and shout.
They want their babies to be safe while they drive erratically, you
know.

[donquijote1954]

Post by rotten

Post by oilfreeandhappy
Don't hold your breath for America. With our obesity rates, lack of
adequate cycling facilities, along with our worship of the automobile,
there may not be much happening in the near future. I think what
America needs is a totally CAR-FREE city. If an investor decided to
take this on, he would have instant advertising, merely from the
publicity.

The closest they could come to at this point is Portland, Oregan and
from what I've heard even people there don't want to ban cars. The
reason there are no car-free cities is that people... believe it or
not... would rather drive cars than use other forms of transportation.

True, but not ALL people. The smarter ones don't. They want to ride
bikes, or a combination of the two.

Most people would rather have both.

[rotten]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by rotten

Post by oilfreeandhappy
Don't hold your breath for America. With our obesity rates, lack of
adequate cycling facilities, along with our worship of the automobile,
there may not be much happening in the near future. I think what
America needs is a totally CAR-FREE city. If an investor decided to
take this on, he would have instant advertising, merely from the
publicity.

The closest they could come to at this point is Portland, Oregan and
from what I've heard even people there don't want to ban cars. The
reason there are no car-free cities is that people... believe it or
not... would rather drive cars than use other forms of transportation.

True, but not ALL people. The smarter ones don't. They want to ride
bikes, or a combination of the two.
Most people would rather have both.

Which is the problem with creating a car-free city. How do you get
40,000 happily car-free individuals together and make it work somehow?

BTW, how would goods get delivered in a car free city?

[donquijote1954]

Post by rotten

Post by donquijote1954
Most people would rather have both.

Which is the problem with creating a car-free city. How do you get
40,000 happily car-free individuals together and make it work somehow?
BTW, how would goods get delivered in a car free city?-

Are you reading? I said most people would have cars and bikes, not one
or the other. Most trips under 5 miles could be done by bike, and the
rest by car, comprende?

[o***@hotmail.com]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by rotten

Post by donquijote1954
Most people would rather have both.

Which is the problem with creating a car-free city. How do you get
40,000 happily car-free individuals together and make it work somehow?
BTW, how would goods get delivered in a car free city?-

Are you reading? I said most people would have cars and bikes, not one
or the other. Most trips under 5 miles could be done by bike, and the
rest by car, comprende?

Especially when they're doing their week's shopping, no doubt.

[donquijote1954]

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by donquijote1954
Are you reading? I said most people would have cars and bikes, not one
or the other. Most trips under 5 miles could be done by bike, and the
rest by car, comprende?

Especially when they're doing their week's shopping, no doubt.

Get a trailer. A basic Google search will give you many brands and
models.

[george conklin]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by donquijote1954
Are you reading? I said most people would have cars and bikes, not one
or the other. Most trips under 5 miles could be done by bike, and the
rest by car, comprende?

Especially when they're doing their week's shopping, no doubt.

Get a trailer. A basic Google search will give you many brands and
models.

As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to walk
next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by george conklin

Post by donquijote1954

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by donquijote1954
Are you reading? I said most people would have cars and bikes, not one
or the other. Most trips under 5 miles could be done by bike, and the
rest by car, comprende?

Especially when they're doing their week's shopping, no doubt.

Get a trailer. A basic Google search will give you many brands and
models.

As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to walk
next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Ack. Not walking, anything but walking. We're melting, melting I say!

And what's up with all the winged monkeys???

-Amy

[John Mara]

Post by george conklin
As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to walk
next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Pedicabs are popular enough in New York that the city council has
enacted regulations for them.

http://www.newsday.com/search/sns-ap-pedaling-rides,0,2759553.story

--
John Mara

[george conklin]

Post by george conklin
As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to
walk next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Pedicabs are popular enough in New York that the city council has enacted
regulations for them.
http://www.newsday.com/search/sns-ap-pedaling-rides,0,2759553.story
--
John Mara

Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used to
be.

[Anymouse]

Post by george conklin

Post by george conklin
As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to
walk next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Pedicabs are popular enough in New York that the city council has enacted
regulations for them.
http://www.newsday.com/search/sns-ap-pedaling-rides,0,2759553.story
--
John Mara

Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used
to be.

"exploitation of workers"? Ridiculous! It's called capitalism and it's not
exploitative. I sometimes agree with you but your wrong this time.

[george conklin]

Post by Anymouse

Post by george conklin

Post by John Mara

Post by george conklin
As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to
walk next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Pedicabs are popular enough in New York that the city council has
enacted regulations for them.
http://www.newsday.com/search/sns-ap-pedaling-rides,0,2759553.story
--
John Mara

Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used
to be.

"exploitation of workers"? Ridiculous! It's called capitalism and it's not
exploitative. I sometimes agree with you but your wrong this time.

But the reason I posted is why major cities in the third world are
getting rid of pedicabs. That is the reason given there. I think it
applies here too.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by Anymouse

Post by george conklin

Post by John Mara

Post by george conklin
As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to
walk next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Pedicabs are popular enough in New York that the city council has
enacted regulations for them.
http://www.newsday.com/search/sns-ap-pedaling-rides,0,2759553.story
--
John Mara

Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used
to be.

"exploitation of workers"? Ridiculous! It's called capitalism and it's not
exploitative. I sometimes agree with you but your wrong this time.

George only likes market forces when they encourage things he likes
anyway...

[Joe the Aroma]

Post by Amy Blankenship

Post by Anymouse

Post by george conklin

Post by John Mara

Post by george conklin
As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to
walk next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Pedicabs are popular enough in New York that the city council has
enacted regulations for them.
http://www.newsday.com/search/sns-ap-pedaling-rides,0,2759553.story
--
John Mara

Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used
to be.

"exploitation of workers"? Ridiculous! It's called capitalism and it's
not exploitative. I sometimes agree with you but your wrong this time.

George only likes market forces when they encourage things he likes
anyway...

Well doesn't everyone? That's the purpose of market forces... to encourage
"things you like".

[j***@phred.org]

Post by george conklin
Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used to
be.

Having ridden pedicabs in New Delhi and in Vancouver, B.C., among other
cities, I wouldn't compare the two labor environments.

If a country doesn't have effective enforcement of worker's rights, and
even still has pockets of indentured servitude and slavery, it could be
that banning a particular occupation might be the only way to eliminate
a particular form of exploitation.

I'd have no qualms about "exploiting" a U.S. or Canadian pedicab
operator.

[george conklin]

Post by j***@phred.org

Post by george conklin
Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used to
be.

Having ridden pedicabs in New Delhi and in Vancouver, B.C., among other
cities, I wouldn't compare the two labor environments.
If a country doesn't have effective enforcement of worker's rights, and
even still has pockets of indentured servitude and slavery, it could be
that banning a particular occupation might be the only way to eliminate
a particular form of exploitation.
I'd have no qualms about "exploiting" a U.S. or Canadian pedicab
operator.

In the third world they view the entire industry as exploiting. We should
be ashamed of ourselves bringing the pedicab back. It shows how morally
bankrupt the New Urbanism is.

[j***@phred.org]

Post by george conklin
In the third world they view the entire industry as exploiting. We should
be ashamed of ourselves bringing the pedicab back. It shows how morally
bankrupt the New Urbanism is.

Do you consider all manual labor morally inferior, or is there something
specific about bicycling that you dislike?

In India, the carpet-weaving industry is also often condemned, in this
case for exploiting child labor. That doesn't mean that we should also
condemn carpet manufacturing in countries that enforce reasonable labor
standards.

[Amy Blankenship]

Post by j***@phred.org

Post by george conklin
In the third world they view the entire industry as exploiting. We should
be ashamed of ourselves bringing the pedicab back. It shows how morally
bankrupt the New Urbanism is.

Do you consider all manual labor morally inferior, or is there something
specific about bicycling that you dislike?
In India, the carpet-weaving industry is also often condemned, in this
case for exploiting child labor. That doesn't mean that we should also
condemn carpet manufacturing in countries that enforce reasonable labor
standards.

Just wait till he gets rolling. He also things all farms should be big
agribusiness because his wife processed poultry to help support her family
as a child on her family's small farm. He may also obscurely fear that
pedicabs may lead to more horse drawn carriages. He has a phobia about
horses...

-Amy

[george conklin]

Post by j***@phred.org

Post by george conklin
In the third world they view the entire industry as exploiting. We should
be ashamed of ourselves bringing the pedicab back. It shows how morally
bankrupt the New Urbanism is.

Do you consider all manual labor morally inferior

Pedicabs are not manual labor. It is considered to be abusive labor.

[Krzysztof Zietara]

Post by george conklin

Post by j***@phred.org

Post by george conklin
In the third world they view the entire industry as exploiting. We should
be ashamed of ourselves bringing the pedicab back. It shows how morally
bankrupt the New Urbanism is.

Do you consider all manual labor morally inferior

Pedicabs are not manual labor.

That would be news to pedicab drivers, I think.

Post by george conklin
It is considered to be abusive labor.

Any kind of labor can be abused, from road building through ship scrapping
to MMORPG gold farming. Your point is?

Tarhimdugurth

[donquijote1954]

Post by george conklin

Post by j***@phred.org

Post by george conklin
In the third world they view the entire industry as exploiting. We should
be ashamed of ourselves bringing the pedicab back. It shows how morally
bankrupt the New Urbanism is.

Do you consider all manual labor morally inferior

Pedicabs are not manual labor. It is considered to be abusive labor.

For whom, the operator or the horse???

[John Kane]

Post by j***@phred.org

Post by george conklin
In the third world they view the entire industry as exploiting. We should
be ashamed of ourselves bringing the pedicab back. It shows how morally
bankrupt the New Urbanism is.

Do you consider all manual labor morally inferior, or is there something
specific about bicycling that you dislike?

I've seen this reaction before. It is okay to have a person (taxi
driver) take you around town but is is somehow degrading if he or she
has to put any real physical effort into it. However there is nothing
wrong with structuring the taxi business that a driver needs to work
12 hour days 6-7 days a week to make living

Post by j***@phred.org
In India, the carpet-weaving industry is also often condemned, in this
case for exploiting child labor. That doesn't mean that we should also
condemn carpet manufacturing in countries that enforce reasonable labor
standards.

We all should convert to hardwood flooring :)

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[donquijote1954]

Post by george conklin

Post by j***@phred.org

Post by george conklin
Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used to
be.

Having ridden pedicabs in New Delhi and in Vancouver, B.C., among other
cities, I wouldn't compare the two labor environments.
If a country doesn't have effective enforcement of worker's rights, and
even still has pockets of indentured servitude and slavery, it could be
that banning a particular occupation might be the only way to eliminate
a particular form of exploitation.
I'd have no qualms about "exploiting" a U.S. or Canadian pedicab
operator.

In the third world they view the entire industry as exploiting. We should
be ashamed of ourselves bringing the pedicab back. It shows how morally
bankrupt the New Urbanism is.-

Are you also concerned about the "Made in China" label? I guess we got
to drop the dollar store then. By the way, some union representative
was in Asia recently trying to organize labor in China. Free unions in
a communist country? I believe it when I see it.

He said something that makes sense: "If capitals are globalized, why
not labor?"

[donquijote1954]

Post by j***@phred.org

Post by george conklin
Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used to
be.

Having ridden pedicabs in New Delhi and in Vancouver, B.C., among other
cities, I wouldn't compare the two labor environments.
If a country doesn't have effective enforcement of worker's rights, and
even still has pockets of indentured servitude and slavery, it could be
that banning a particular occupation might be the only way to eliminate
a particular form of exploitation.
I'd have no qualms about "exploiting" a U.S. or Canadian pedicab
operator.

I think George is all for the Pedicab Liberation Front!?

[donquijote1954]

Post by george conklin

Post by george conklin
As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to
walk next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Pedicabs are popular enough in New York that the city council has enacted
regulations for them.
http://www.newsday.com/search/sns-ap-pedaling-rides,0,2759553.story
--
John Mara

Yes, just as the third world is getting rid of such exploitation of
workers, NYC is starting up with its hazy visions of great the past used to
be.-

You know what you "oil addiction" is forcing the Nigereans into?
Untold exploitation and misery. That's why they came up with a Niger
Liberation Front, or something to the effect.

[donquijote1954]

Post by george conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Get a trailer. A basic Google search will give you many brands and
models.

As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to walk
next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Well, you seem to rejoice in going back in time, because as far as me
goes SUVs are dinosaurs. Unwilling to evolve, unwilling to listen (due
to their pea-sized brain) and causing a lot of trouble, like the war
over oil we are currently fighting --and losing.

And the American government and any other government who doesn't
guarantee a minimun safety for individuals who want NOT to contribute
to Global Warming, are accountable for the environmental disaster
looming upon us...

"I personally believe that the planet would be a better place if
everybody rode a bike instead of drive a car. However, until then I am
a happier, healthier person simply because I choose to ride instead of
fire up the car."
Thanks again.
michael

http://commutebybike.com/2006/11/15/global-warming-do-bicycles-make-a-difference/

Now some ecologists, who probably out of desperation for this sad
state of affairs, seeing no peaceful solution to it, took up violence
are being branded as "terrorists." SUVs drivers though are our best
patriots, particularly judging by the bumper stickers they proudly
parade: "We support our troops" etc.

George Orwell spoke about it with prophetic words...

'Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and
simplified vocabulary and grammar. This suited the totalitarian regime
of the Party, whose aim was to make any alternative thinking
("thoughtcrime") or speech impossible by removing any words or
possible constructs which describe the ideas of freedom, rebellion and
so on.

The Newspeak term for the English language is Oldspeak. Oldspeak was
intended to have been completely eclipsed by Newspeak before 2050.

The genesis of Orwell's Newspeak can be seen in his earlier essay,
"Politics and the English Language," in which he laments the quality
of the English of his day, citing examples of dying metaphors,
pretentious diction or rhetoric, and meaningless words - all of which
contribute to fuzzy ideas and a lack of logical thinking. Towards the
end of this essay, having argued his case, Orwell muses:

" I said earlier that the decadence of our language is probably
curable. Those who deny this would argue, if they produced an argument
at all, that language merely reflects existing social conditions, and
that we cannot influence its development by any direct tinkering with
words or constructions. "

Thus forcing the use of Newspeak, according to Orwell, describes a
deliberate intent to exploit this degeneration with the aim of
oppressing its speakers.'

[george conklin]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by george conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Get a trailer. A basic Google search will give you many brands and
models.

As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to walk
next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Well, you seem to rejoice in going back in time, because as far as me
goes SUVs are dinosaurs. Unwilling to evolve, unwilling to listen (due
to their pea-sized brain) and causing a lot of trouble, like the war
over oil we are currently fighting --and losing.

Those of you who worship the past are in for a rude shock when the time
arrives when the human animal once again becomes a beast of burden. You are
betting that you will be able to hire someone else to do your work for you.

[g***@yahoo.com]

Post by george conklin
Those of you who worship the past are in for a rude shock when the time
arrives when the human animal once again becomes a beast of burden. You are
betting that you will be able to hire someone else to do your work for you.

So, North Carolina still has Automat restaurants instead of hand-assembled
fast food?

[donquijote1954]

Post by george conklin

Post by donquijote1954

Post by george conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Get a trailer. A basic Google search will give you many brands and
models.

As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to walk
next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Well, you seem to rejoice in going back in time, because as far as me
goes SUVs are dinosaurs. Unwilling to evolve, unwilling to listen (due
to their pea-sized brain) and causing a lot of trouble, like the war
over oil we are currently fighting --and losing.

Those of you who worship the past are in for a rude shock when the time
arrives when the human animal once again becomes a beast of burden. You are
betting that you will be able to hire someone else to do your work for you.-

Have you heard about Sweatshops??? That's been happening for the
longest time.

[Sancho Panza]

Post by donquijote1954

Post by george conklin

Post by donquijote1954
Get a trailer. A basic Google search will give you many brands and
models.

As Calcutta outlaws pedicabs, they are now fashionable with the New
Urbanist crowd. You can take home some stuff on one, if you agree to walk
next to it. That ought to please those who want to go back in time.

Well, you seem to rejoice in going back in time, because as far as me
goes SUVs are dinosaurs. Unwilling to evolve, unwilling to listen (due
to their pea-sized brain) and causing a lot of trouble, like the war
over oil we are currently fighting --and losing.

The ignorance about what has happened with SUV's in the last 5 to 7 years is
palpable. But information isn't the real purpose, as the screed below
illustrates.

Post by donquijote1954
And the American government and any other government who doesn't
guarantee a minimun safety for individuals who want NOT to contribute
to Global Warming, are accountable for the environmental disaster
looming upon us...
"I personally believe that the planet would be a better place if
everybody rode a bike instead of drive a car. However, until then I am
a happier, healthier person simply because I choose to ride instead of
fire up the car."
Thanks again.
michael
http://commutebybike.com/2006/11/15/global-warming-do-bicycles-make-a-difference/
Now some ecologists, who probably out of desperation for this sad
state of affairs, seeing no peaceful solution to it, took up violence
are being branded as "terrorists." SUVs drivers though are our best
patriots, particularly judging by the bumper stickers they proudly
parade: "We support our troops" etc.
George Orwell spoke about it with prophetic words...
'Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and
simplified vocabulary and grammar. This suited the totalitarian regime
of the Party, whose aim was to make any alternative thinking
("thoughtcrime") or speech impossible by removing any words or
possible constructs which describe the ideas of freedom, rebellion and
so on.
The Newspeak term for the English language is Oldspeak. Oldspeak was
intended to have been completely eclipsed by Newspeak before 2050.
The genesis of Orwell's Newspeak can be seen in his earlier essay,
"Politics and the English Language," in which he laments the quality
of the English of his day, citing examples of dying metaphors,
pretentious diction or rhetoric, and meaningless words - all of which
contribute to fuzzy ideas and a lack of logical thinking. Towards the
" I said earlier that the decadence of our language is probably
curable. Those who deny this would argue, if they produced an argument
at all, that language merely reflects existing social conditions, and
that we cannot influence its development by any direct tinkering with
words or constructions. "
Thus forcing the use of Newspeak, according to Orwell, describes a
deliberate intent to exploit this degeneration with the aim of
oppressing its speakers.'

[donquijote1954]

--eco-terrorists are aptly named. Its not that things aren't changing,
they are, albiet slowly, the "eco-terrorist" have been very lucky in
that they haven't killed anyone that we know of yet. Destroying new
housing, SUV's or burning down ski lodges may not be the same as Osama
bin Goathumper planning the destruction of the WTC but if you read
some of the blogs these nuts and thier supporters put out there, it is
very clear that they don't consider anyone who disagrees with them in
the slightest to have any right to be heard. It is literally thier way
or the highway. Anything they do to stop those they disagree with is
just a-okay. Scaring folks is just alright with them.--


If you use and abuse the term you may have to include some other folks
out there, namely ROAD TERRORISM...

"Road rage (also road violence, road terrorism) is the common name for
deliberately dangerous and/or violent behaviour under the influence of
heightened anger, by any motor vehicle operator, affecting the safety
of one or more other operators or bystanders."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_rage

Oh, by the way, I really feel TERRORIZED while riding my bike. SUV
terrorists and cell phone terrorists terrorize me the most.

[Claire Petersky]

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by donquijote1954
I said most people would have cars and bikes, not one
or the other. Most trips under 5 miles could be done by bike, and the
rest by car,

Especially when they're doing their week's shopping, no doubt.

When folks are not being so absolutist about everything...

Here's how I work it: if I have a big load (like the week's grocery
shopping), I'm in the car with other people, or the distance is too far, I
drive. If it's just me, I walk, bike, take the bus, or carpool.

So, next week I'm going to Olympia for work, that's 50 miles, and there' s
no decent public transport from here to there, so I'll be driving down the
5. But as it has been pointed out repeatedly, most people aren't going 50
miles, they're going 5. "Too far" is defined as a half mile, not five. The
five mile or less trips: - to the park and ride when I was too lazy to ride
my bike the whole way in to work, to the post office, to the drug store, to
religious services - I did these by bike or on foot.

This works pretty well for me. It could work well for a lot of people, if
they were just willing to try it.

[g***@yahoo.com]

Post by Claire Petersky
So, next week I'm going to Olympia for work, that's 50 miles, and there' s
no decent public transport from here to there, so I'll be driving down the
5. But as it has been pointed out repeatedly, most people aren't going 50
miles, they're going 5. "Too far" is defined as a half mile, not five. The
five mile or less trips: - to the park and ride when I was too lazy to ride
my bike the whole way in to work, to the post office, to the drug store, to
religious services - I did these by bike or on foot.

It's interesting that I have never heard I-5 referred to as "the 5" until
the past 2-3 years or so. And I was born in Portland. Is this the way
people in the Seattle area refer to the interstate highways? Or just I-5?

While there is probably no decent public transportation for what you want
to do, at least Metro does operate the express bus service that operates
on I-5 between most of the major metropolitan centers in the Seattle
area. Here in Portland such bus lines do not exist, even though a
Portland-Salem service would probably be quite full in both directions.
The current Salem-Wilsonville service seems to be quite full, but
considering it doesn't serve Portland a major piece of the puzzle is
missing, but Seattle seems to have that much together at least.

[John Kane]

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by donquijote1954

Post by rotten

Post by donquijote1954
Most people would rather have both.

Which is the problem with creating a car-free city. How do you get
40,000 happily car-free individuals together and make it work somehow?
BTW, how would goods get delivered in a car free city?-

Are you reading? I said most people would have cars and bikes, not one
or the other. Most trips under 5 miles could be done by bike, and the
rest by car, comprende?

Especially when they're doing their week's shopping, no doubt.

Why a week's shopping? Without the hassle of a car to park it is
pretty easy to make a stop 2-3 times a week and get fresher foods.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[Bonehenge (B A R R Y)]

Post by John Kane
Why a week's shopping? Without the hassle of a car to park it is
pretty easy to make a stop 2-3 times a week and get fresher foods.

Good point.

WITH the hassle of a car to park, we shop 3 times a week because we
like fresh fruit and vegetables. <G>

In fact, we usually don't buy the fresh stuff from a supermarket, as
we have local vendors with much better produce, meats, and fish. We
actually only go to the supermarket once, or maybe twice a month, for
paper goods, soda, etc...

[Sancho Panza]

Post by John Kane

Post by o***@hotmail.com

Post by donquijote1954

Post by rotten

Post by donquijote1954
Most people would rather have both.

Which is the problem with creating a car-free city. How do you get
40,000 happily car-free individuals together and make it work somehow?
BTW, how would goods get delivered in a car free city?-

Are you reading? I said most people would have cars and bikes, not one
or the other. Most trips under 5 miles could be done by bike, and the
rest by car, comprende?

Especially when they're doing their week's shopping, no doubt.

Why a week's shopping? Without the hassle of a car to park it is
pretty easy to make a stop 2-3 times a week and get fresher foods.

That's fine if one isn't working a full schedule, along with other time
eaters like appointments and family obligations. Unless, of course, it's
faster to ride a loaded bicycle (with its trailer) than popping into a Fit
for quick trip.

[Stephen Sprunk]

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by John Kane
Why a week's shopping? Without the hassle of a car to park it is
pretty easy to make a stop 2-3 times a week and get fresher foods.

That's fine if one isn't working a full schedule, along with other time
eaters like appointments and family obligations. Unless, of course, it's
faster to ride a loaded bicycle (with its trailer) than popping into a Fit
for quick trip.

When doing that math one must penalize the driver for the hour per day
working out (and associated travel time, if not at home) to get the same
health benefits as one gets commuting on a bike. Of course, most drivers
claim they don't have time to work out either and eat only fast food, which
is why we're a country full of fat-asses.

Additionally, biking means you'll be passing a lot of the stores you need to
visit on local streets instead of stuck in stop-and-go traffic on a freeway.
The extra time it takes to do a little bit of shopping on the way is
minimal, particularly since parking a bike is easy and you're more likely to
visit smaller stores you can get in and out of quickly as opposed to a
weekly two-hour trip to Super Wal-Mart.

I'm not a bicyclist (I'm reading in m.t.u-t), but I ride a motorcycle most
of the time and it's altered how I shop. Now I spend a half-hour per day
getting what I need (everything I can stuff in my backpack) instead of
saving all my shopping for the weekend, and the time I save parking alone
makes up for it. I've considered biking, but like most commuters in big
sprawling cities, the sheer distances I need to go aren't feasible for me,
and bikes are banned on transit during peak hours here so that wouldn't
help. Also, my office doesn't have a shower, so I'd be pretty ripe all
day -- not very professional. It just doesn't seem practical unless you
live in a small or dense town with cool, dry weather most of the time.

S

[Sancho Panza]

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by John Kane
Why a week's shopping? Without the hassle of a car to park it is
pretty easy to make a stop 2-3 times a week and get fresher foods.

That's fine if one isn't working a full schedule, along with other time
eaters like appointments and family obligations. Unless, of course, it's
faster to ride a loaded bicycle (with its trailer) than popping into a Fit
for quick trip.

When doing that math one must penalize the driver for the hour per day
working out (and associated travel time, if not at home) to get the same
health benefits as one gets commuting on a bike. Of course, most drivers
claim they don't have time to work out either and eat only fast food,

A factoid maybe to be found in the 2000 Census, or maybe the 2010 Census.

[rotten]

Post by donquijote1954
Will we ever see the day when American cities have thousands of
cyclists going up and down the street without unnecessary risks? It's
healthy for you as well as for your pocket and for the environment.
And it can be combined with public transportation for greater
flexibility.
Well, Paris is just making that possible, but France is the site of
the Tour de France. That surely is behind that overdue decision. But
hey, we do have a champion or two to show. And we even have some
politicians who are into bicycling and not SUVing.
Reality check, it ain't happening here in your lifetime. Too many
vested interests.
That would take a revolution, but that's another subject...
"Official Washington likes to think that it is bicycle-friendly. But
we often hear a different story, involving dodging bricks, menacing
drivers, annoying registrations, and brazen theives. For all but the
most hardcore cyclists among us, the thought of negotiating D.C.'s
streets on two wheels is harrowing, which is a shame. Washington is
blessed with compact development, historic neighborhoods, and
beautiful scenery which may be a bit spread out to enjoy on foot, but
is easily covered by bike. Many who would love to tour the miles
between Arlington Cemetary and the Capitol and beyond on two wheels
are relegated to tour busses and Metro, which both limits their
mobility and annoys the hell out of commuters. So, in the spirit of
the upcoming Bike to Work Day on May 18, we pass on a solution from
across the pond: municipal bikes.
Thousands of sightseers filling the roads with cars (and the air with
exhaust) while attempting to visit its many historic sites. In
response, the Parisian goverment is launching an effort this summer to
provide cheap rental bikes. Lots of them.
On July 15, the day after Bastille Day, Parisians will wake up to
discover thousands of low-cost rental bikes at hundreds of high-tech
bicycle stations scattered throughout the city, an ambitious program
to cut traffic, reduce pollution, improve parking and enhance the
city's image as a greener, quieter, more relaxed place.
By the end of the year, organizers and city officials say, there
should be 20,600 bikes at 1,450 stations -- or about one station every
250 yards across the entire city. Based on experience elsewhere --
particularly in Lyon, France's third-largest city, which launched a
similar system two years ago -- regular users of the bikes will ride
them almost for free.
At first, we cringe at the thought of hundreds of street-clogging lost
tourists and a cottage industry of bike thefts. With more examination,
though, there's a lot to like. Providing bikes in those numbers
creates a critical mass that changes the way the city deals with them
-- pushing DDOT to crate a more continuous and extensive bike network
in the city. Streets and paths appropriate for bikers would get even
more so, which pulls bicycles off of streets that aren't, lessening
the dangerous competition with autos.
In Denmark, Copenhagen's City Bikes program has been established for
years, resulting in huge shifts in transportation, pollution, and the
city's image. As for theft, both Copenhagen and Helsinki's bicycle
programs have actually reduced it. The free bike use provided by the
program both eliminates the need for theft and removes a considerable
market for resale.
Now that we've got a triathlete Mayor, isn't it time to get Washington
some bikes?"
http://www.dcist.com/2007/05/02/what_were_missi.php
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLEhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
THE BANANA REVOLUTIONhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

I have absolutely no problem with bikes. Hell, paint lines on the road
for them, that's what they did here in Cambridge. What I dislike is
paying for transit that nobody uses or is so inefficiently run that it
has to be subsidized by the taxpayers. And no, we shouldn't subsidize
cars either.

[donquijote1954]

Post by rotten
I have absolutely no problem with bikes. Hell, paint lines on the road
for them, that's what they did here in Cambridge. What I dislike is
paying for transit that nobody uses or is so inefficiently run that it
has to be subsidized by the taxpayers. And no, we shouldn't subsidize
cars either.-

It makes so much sense that the experts in the field should study it.
Remember though this classic quote...

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it."
-Upton Sinclair in The Jungle