Do more Americans ride bike on the road or sidewalk?

[ComandanteBanana]

It looks like a stupid question. But we already know how many
hamburgers we gulp down every year and how many hours we spend
watching the Idiot’s Box.

Then the issue of what people ride bikes where starts to make sense.
Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they afraid of the
road or what?

Of course, everybody rides on the sidewalk where I live. And yet these
things must be done according to scientific methods and sample
populations. If the samples are taken where the poor live, no doubt
the sidewalk wins. But if you go to the green areas and gated
communities, people enjoy bike paths and then the picture is reversed,
like black and white.

So while all the data is collected and everything, what’s your best
gut feeling? ;)

BIKE FOR PEACE
htttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

[Pat]

The answer is VERY specific as to how you ask the question, so the
first thing you want to decide is exactly what it is you want to know.

For example, if you want to know how many "commute" by bike on a
sidewalk/road, that's a VERY different question than how many "ride"
on a bike/road. I would guess that "ride" has a MUCH higher
percentage of people riding on sidewalks because it would include
children, who are the largest group of riders.

You'll also get very different results for rural/suburban/urban. For
example, cul-de-sac suburban might ALL ride on roads (including
children) because they cul-de-sacs don't have much traffic and there
are no sidewalks. Rural will also have more road riders because of
the lack of sidewalks.

You would also need to define "commute" to figure out if that included
children going to school.

The other obvious challenge to a question like this is how do you
define "riding". It is likely that most people do a little of each.

[Daniel Barlow]

Post by ComandanteBanana
It looks like a stupid question.

It's definitely an offtopic question. The "uk" in uk.rec.cycling is
for "United Kingdom" (as in "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland"), not for the University of Kentucky.

You might have heard of our country in history lessons at school, if
not more recently. There probably aren't enough Americans living here
to make a statistically meaningful survey of whether they ride bike on
the road or sidewalk (or "pavement" as we like to call it)

Hope this helps. Be grateful if you could amend the newsgroups line
on further posts. Thanks.


-dan

[Pat]

Post by Daniel Barlow

Post by ComandanteBanana
It looks like a stupid question.

It's definitely an offtopic question. The "uk" in uk.rec.cycling is
for "United Kingdom" (as in "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland"), not for the University of Kentucky.
You might have heard of our country in history lessons at school, if
not more recently. There probably aren't enough Americans living here
to make a statistically meaningful survey of whether they ride bike on
the road or sidewalk (or "pavement" as we like to call it)
Hope this helps. Be grateful if you could amend the newsgroups line
on further posts. Thanks.
-dan

Of course UK isn't University of Kentucky. Do you really think they
have universities in Kentucky??? They'd be lucky to have high
schools.

You're the guys who drive on the wrong site of the road, eat
disgusting things, and have bad teeth; aren't you?

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Pat

... The "uk" in uk.rec.cycling is
for "United Kingdom" (as in "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland"), not for the University of Kentucky....

Of course UK isn't University of Kentucky. Do you really think they
have universities in Kentucky??? They'd be lucky to have high
schools....

Of course there is a University of Kentucky - it is a minor adjunct to
the basketball team that is required to meet NCAA rules.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ComandanteBanana
It looks like a stupid question.

It's definitely an offtopic question.  The "uk" in uk.rec.cycling is
for "United Kingdom" (as in "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland"), not for the University of Kentucky.
You might have heard of our country in history lessons at school, if
not more recently.  There probably aren't enough Americans living here
to make a statistically meaningful survey of whether they ride bike on
the road or sidewalk (or "pavement" as we like to call it)
Hope this helps.  Be grateful if you could amend the newsgroups line
on further posts.  Thanks.
-dan

All I need to know about the UK I know. That America beat you in a
war, and that now you are both the best allies around the world.

Does all this familiarity extends to cycling?

[Pat]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Daniel Barlow

Post by ComandanteBanana
It looks like a stupid question.

It's definitely an offtopic question. The "uk" in uk.rec.cycling is
for "United Kingdom" (as in "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland"), not for the University of Kentucky.
You might have heard of our country in history lessons at school, if
not more recently. There probably aren't enough Americans living here
to make a statistically meaningful survey of whether they ride bike on
the road or sidewalk (or "pavement" as we like to call it)
Hope this helps. Be grateful if you could amend the newsgroups line
on further posts. Thanks.
-dan

All I need to know about the UK I know.

Funny, but I live in the US and would not dare to say that everything
I need to know about the US, I know. Each of us knows very little --
even about topics in which might be considered experts. So to say
that you know everything about a whole country -- one in which you do
not even live -- is astonishing. The wreaks of the most amazing
arrogance one could imagine. No wonder no one likes the US. (:-(

At least then I jokes about them, first of all it was obviously a joke
and secondly, it was a joke to show how un-enlightened I am. But your
response is ... well, incredible.

I hope that members of the various N.G.s that you have crossed posted
to think that all Americans are as arrogant and ignorant as you are:
maybe just most of us.

That America beat you in a

Post by ComandanteBanana
war, and that now you are both the best allies around the world.
Does all this familiarity extends to cycling?

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Pat

Post by ComandanteBanana
All I need to know about the UK I know.

Funny, but I live in the US and would not dare to say that everything
I need to know about the US, I know.  Each of us knows very little --
even about topics in which might be considered experts.  So to say
that you know everything about a whole country -- one in which you do
not even live -- is astonishing.  The wreaks of the most amazing
arrogance one could imagine.  No wonder no one likes the US.  (:-(
At least then I jokes about them, first of all it was obviously a joke
and secondly, it was a joke to show how un-enlightened I am.  But your
response is ... well, incredible.
I hope that members of the various N.G.s that you have crossed posted
maybe just most of us.

I also hear that the British have a good sense of humour, and since
they haven't complained about my tall statement... it seems to be
true.

But notice I didn't say "I know everything about the UK," but "All I
need to know"...

What I need to know about America though is "most Americans ride bikes
on sidewalks."

[Frank Krygowski]

Post by ComandanteBanana
It looks like a stupid question.

Yes it does.

- Frank Krygowski

[Dave Larrington]

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by ComandanteBanana
It looks like a stupid question.

Yes it does.

It IS a stupid question, Frank, coz it comes from a muppet with absolutely
NO clue as to what "uk" stands for.

[Jack May]

...Then the issue of what
people ride bikes where starts
to make sense.

.Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they
afraid of the

..road or what?

(I put in some >>>>>>>>>>> because you make your response difficult to read
because you use crap softeware)

People decide on the mode of their commute by the perceived cost. They
typically choose the lowest cost transportation mode.

The perceived cost has been found to = wage rate * waiting time + half wage
rate * travel time + dollar cost for the trip

A bike has a very high cost of time for most people. They can not afford
the cost of time for a bike compared to the cost of driving.

Bikes and transit are far more expensive than cars for most people so they
don't use bikes or transit for their commute.

This is one of the results of Professor at UC Berkely who won a Nobel Prize
for determing how people make decision in real life including selecting
which commute mode they use.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by Jack May

...Then the issue of what
people ride bikes where starts
to make sense.

.Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they
afraid of the

..road or what?

(I put in some >>>>>>>>>>> because you make your response difficult to read
because you use crap softeware)
People decide on the mode of their commute by the perceived cost.   They
typically choose the lowest cost transportation mode.
The perceived cost has been found to = wage rate * waiting time  + half wage
rate * travel time + dollar cost for the trip
A bike has a very high cost of time for most people.   They can not afford
the cost of time for a bike compared to the cost of driving.
Bikes and transit are far more expensive than cars for most people so they
don't use bikes or transit for their commute.
This is one of the results of Professor at UC Berkely who won a Nobel Prize
for determing how people make decision in real life including selecting
which commute mode they use.

Well, there's another factor to be determined by the polls...

HOW MANY STAY AWAY FROM CYCLING NOT TO GET HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE
GOT?

I explain, here is not like in the UK or something where you are
covered by health insurance and you can afford, say, to have an
emergency operation and physical therapy. Then you lose your job, and
finally you fade away in a wheel chair.

By the way, you prefer the manual ones or the battery ones? Well, at
least it got wheels, right?

[_]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jack May

...Then the issue of what
people ride bikes where starts
to make sense.

.Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they
afraid of the

..road or what?

(I put in some >>>>>>>>>>> because you make your response difficult to read
because you use crap softeware)
People decide on the mode of their commute by the perceived cost.   They
typically choose the lowest cost transportation mode.
The perceived cost has been found to = wage rate * waiting time  + half wage
rate * travel time + dollar cost for the trip
A bike has a very high cost of time for most people.   They can not afford
the cost of time for a bike compared to the cost of driving.
Bikes and transit are far more expensive than cars for most people so they
don't use bikes or transit for their commute.
This is one of the results of Professor at UC Berkely who won a Nobel Prize
for determing how people make decision in real life including selecting
which commute mode they use.

Well, there's another factor to be determined by the polls...
HOW MANY STAY AWAY FROM CYCLING NOT TO GET HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE
GOT?

How so?

As cycling is healthier by a factor of about 5 than life itself, based on
the risk of death per unit time, which it can be assumed tracks the risk of
getting "HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE GOT" reasonably well, anyone who stays
away from cycling for that reason has no more congitive capacity than
TollJ.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by _

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by Jack May

...Then the issue of what
people ride bikes where starts
to make sense.

.Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they
afraid of the

..road or what?

(I put in some >>>>>>>>>>> because you make your response difficult to read
because you use crap softeware)
People decide on the mode of their commute by the perceived cost.   They
typically choose the lowest cost transportation mode.
The perceived cost has been found to = wage rate * waiting time  + half wage
rate * travel time + dollar cost for the trip
A bike has a very high cost of time for most people.   They can not afford
the cost of time for a bike compared to the cost of driving.
Bikes and transit are far more expensive than cars for most people so they
don't use bikes or transit for their commute.
This is one of the results of Professor at UC Berkely who won a Nobel Prize
for determing how people make decision in real life including selecting
which commute mode they use.

Well, there's another factor to be determined by the polls...
HOW MANY STAY AWAY FROM CYCLING NOT TO GET HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE
GOT?

How so?
As cycling is healthier by a factor of about 5 than life itself, based on
the risk of death per unit time, which it can be assumed tracks the risk of
getting "HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE GOT" reasonably well, anyone who stays
away from cycling for that reason has no more congitive capacity than
TollJ.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

But if you are couch potato you are less likely to have a sprain or be
run over by a car, and thus they figure that potato couching is better
--at least in the short term.

[Tadej Brezina]

Post by _

Post by ComandanteBanana
HOW MANY STAY AWAY FROM CYCLING NOT TO GET HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE
GOT?

How so?
As cycling is healthier by a factor of about 5 than life itself, based on
the risk of death per unit time, which it can be assumed tracks the risk of
getting "HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE GOT" reasonably well, anyone who stays
away from cycling for that reason has no more congitive capacity than
TollJ.

Interesting figure! What's the source to read about in detail?
regards
Tadej

[peter]

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by _

Post by ComandanteBanana
HOW MANY STAY AWAY FROM CYCLING NOT TO GET HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE
GOT?

How so?
As cycling is healthier by a factor of about 5 than life itself, based on
the risk of death per unit time, which it can be assumed tracks the risk of
getting "HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE GOT" reasonably well, anyone who stays
away from cycling for that reason has no more congitive capacity than
TollJ.

Interesting figure! What's the source to read about in detail?

Probably based on the somewhat dated study by Failure Associates, Inc.
which did research for the insurance industry and others. Their
figures showed the fatality rate for bicycling to be 0.26 deaths per
million hours of the activity vs. overall living having a rate of 1.53
deaths per million hours (i.e. one death every 74 years of living).
Some comments on this study and similar ones can be found on Ken
Kifer's old web pages at:
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

Note that while the number of cycling fatalities is known quite
accurately, it's much more difficult to get good estimates on how much
total cycling (either in miles or hours) is done annually. The
Failure Associates estimates appear to be in the ballpark with others
but should be viewed as having large uncertainties.

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by Tadej Brezina

Post by _

Post by ComandanteBanana
HOW MANY STAY AWAY FROM CYCLING NOT TO GET HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE
GOT?

How so?
As cycling is healthier by a factor of about 5 than life itself, based on
the risk of death per unit time, which it can be assumed tracks the risk of
getting "HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE GOT" reasonably well, anyone who stays
away from cycling for that reason has no more congitive capacity than
TollJ.

Interesting figure! What's the source to read about in detail?
regards
Tadej

I think that's based on gut feeling with a margin of error of 90%.

[Jack May]

Post by Jack May

...Then the issue of what
people ride bikes where
starts
to make sense.

.Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they
afraid of the

..road or what?

(I put in some >>>>>>>>>>> because you make your response difficult to read
because you use crap softeware)
People decide on the mode of their commute by the perceived cost. They
typically choose the lowest cost transportation mode.
The perceived cost has been found to = wage rate * waiting time + half
wage
rate * travel time + dollar cost for the trip
A bike has a very high cost of time for most people. They can not afford
the cost of time for a bike compared to the cost of driving.
Bikes and transit are far more expensive than cars for most people so they
don't use bikes or transit for their commute.
This is one of the results of Professor at UC Berkely who won a Nobel Prize
for determing how people make decision in real life including selecting
which commute mode they use.

Google Groups ugh
reply: Well, there's another factor to be determined by the polls...

Google Groups ugh
reply: HOW MANY STAY AWAY FROM CYCLING NOT TO GET HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE
GOT?

That may be a minor factor, but the economic analysis determines the main
factors. Your fear factor probably explains very little.

Google Groups ugh reply: I explain, here is not
like in the UK or something where you are

covered by health insurance and you can afford, say, to have an
emergency
operation and physical therapy.

So what? If you are killed on your bike, none of those mean any thing

[KingOfTheApes]

On Aug 29, 7:13 pm, "Jack May" <***@comcast.net> wrote:
.

So what?  If you are killed on your bike, none of those mean any thing- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Yeah, if you are killed your suffering is over, but if you get sick or
hurt in America, the suffering just starts.

I think they should approve the Kevorkian machine in the insurance
plans.

Serious, let aside the 45 mill. that don't have insurance, are you
covered if you have a bike accident? Or are you losing house and all?

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Jack May

...Then the issue of what
people ride bikes where starts
to make sense.

.Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they
afraid of the

..road or what?

(I put in some >>>>>>>>>>> because you make your response difficult to read
because you use crap softeware)

That makes a cool bar code pattern on Thunderbird.

Post by Jack May
People decide on the mode of their commute by the perceived cost. They
typically choose the lowest cost transportation mode.
The perceived cost has been found to = wage rate * waiting time + half wage
rate * travel time + dollar cost for the trip
A bike has a very high cost of time for most people. They can not afford
the cost of time for a bike compared to the cost of driving.

butbutbut, riding a bicycle is FUN! The ideal would be to have a shower
at work, so one could hammer hard, then clean up. Repeat at the end of
the work day.

Post by Jack May
Bikes and transit are far more expensive than cars for most people so they
don't use bikes or transit for their commute.
This is one of the results of Professor at UC Berkely who won a Nobel Prize
for determing how people make decision in real life including selecting
which commute mode they use.

Superior people find cycling more fun.

[Jack May]

Post by Tom Sherman
Superior people find cycling more fun.

I used a bike for years for exersize. Bikes have nothing to do with
making you superior. Bike riding is OK but I never got a "fun" thrill out
of it. Exersize on a trampoline is a better source of fun.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Jack May

Post by Tom Sherman
Superior people find cycling more fun.

I used a bike for years for exersize. Bikes have nothing to do with
making you superior. Bike riding is OK but I never got a "fun" thrill out
of it. Exersize on a trampoline is a better source of fun.

HEATHEN!

We can safely conclude that Jack May is not a superior person, since he
does not value cycling above all else.

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by Tom Sherman
Superior people find cycling more fun.

I used a bike for years for exersize.    Bikes have nothing to do with
making you superior.   Bike riding is OK but I never got a "fun" thrill out
of it.   Exersize on a trampoline is a better source of fun.

You just got to try riding it on the highway. Or simple try BMX.

[ZBicyclist]

Post by KingOfTheApes

Post by Tom Sherman
Superior people find cycling more fun.

I used a bike for years for exersize. Bikes have nothing to do
with
making you superior. Bike riding is OK but I never got a "fun"
thrill out of it. Exersize on a trampoline is a better source of
fun.

You just got to try riding it on the highway. Or simple try BMX.

After looking at this, I'm discouraged from trying BMX trampoline.
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/7/Trampoline-BMX-338541.html

And a trampoline on the highway, well ...

[Marz]

Post by Tom Sherman
Superior people find cycling more fun.

I used a bike for years for exersize.    Bikes have nothing to do with
making you superior.   Bike riding is OK but I never got a "fun" thrill out
of it.   Exersize on a trampoline is a better source of fun.

Bouncing on a trampoline is more fun than cycling??? Are you sure
you're riding correctly?

[RicodJour]

Post by Jack May

...Then the issue of what
people ride bikes where starts
to make sense.

.Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they
afraid of the

..road or what?

(I put in some >>>>>>>>>>> because you make your response difficult to read
because you use crap softeware)
People decide on the mode of their commute by the perceived cost.   They
typically choose the lowest cost transportation mode.
The perceived cost has been found to = wage rate * waiting time  + half wage
rate * travel time + dollar cost for the trip
A bike has a very high cost of time for most people.   They can not afford
the cost of time for a bike compared to the cost of driving.
Bikes and transit are far more expensive than cars for most people so they
don't use bikes or transit for their commute.
This is one of the results of Professor at UC Berkely who won a Nobel Prize
for determing how people make decision in real life including selecting
which commute mode they use.

The whole problem with the almost-equation is that people's
perceptions are skewed, much like your response. You start with your
given and reverse engineer an equation. People don't think of the
perceived cost (lost wages) of sleep, because sleep is a given.
People don't think of the actual cost of a car unless they are in
financial straits - it's a given that they have a car, so why not use
it?

People don't do well with multi-variable analysis, particularly when
it's applied to their own lives. If bike commuting eliminated the
actual cost of having a gym membership and taking additional time
apart from the commuting time to exercise, then the perceived overall
cost would be different. People's decisions would be different.

You start with a faulty given and you end up with a faulty solution/
decision.

R

[Jym Dyer]

A bike has a very high cost of time for most people. They can
not afford the cost of time for a bike compared to the cost of
driving.

=v= Ivan Illich proved the opposite in the early 1970s.

Bikes and transit are far more expensive than cars for most
people so they don't use bikes or transit for their commute.

=v= Transit may *appear* to be more expensive, but that's only
due to the massive hidden subsidy of cars. Nobody seriously
argues that bikes are more expensive.
<_Jym_>

[Tom Sherman]

... Nobody seriously
argues that bikes are more expensive [than cars].

Except Jack May, of course. ;)

[Graham Harrison]

"ComandanteBanana" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ad49c469-c241-4bd7-84fe-***@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
It looks like a stupid question. But we already know how many
hamburgers we gulp down every year and how many hours we spend
watching the Idiot’s Box.

Then the issue of what people ride bikes where starts to make sense.
Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they afraid of the
road or what?

Of course, everybody rides on the sidewalk where I live. And yet these
things must be done according to scientific methods and sample
populations. If the samples are taken where the poor live, no doubt
the sidewalk wins. But if you go to the green areas and gated
communities, people enjoy bike paths and then the picture is reversed,
like black and white.

So while all the data is collected and everything, what’s your best
gut feeling? ;)

BIKE FOR PEACE
htttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace


On my visits to the USA I am often surprised by the number of cyclists who
ride into oncoming traffic. There I am, trying to remember to drive on the
right only to be confronted by a cyclist coming towards me on my side of the
road. Why?

[bugbear]

ComandanteBanana wrote:

My recollections from various parts of America
is that there are no sidewalks in vast swathes
of housing. Sidewalks are for walking,
and Americans don't (sweeping generalisation)
walk.

Hence the issue of riding bicycles
on them is ... tenuous.

I once walked (3 blocks) from a hotel
to a business in Palo Alto.

Given the time difference, I'd woken
early, and had plenty of time.

And the weather was good.

There were no pavements, sorry sidewalks.

A police car drew up and asked me what I was doing.

So walking is considered "unusual", at least by the police.

BugBear

[Pat]

Post by bugbear
My recollections from various parts of America
is that there are no sidewalks in vast swathes
of housing. Sidewalks are for walking,
and Americans don't (sweeping generalisation)
walk.
Hence the issue of riding bicycles
on them is ... tenuous.
I once walked (3 blocks) from a hotel
to a business in Palo Alto.
Given the time difference, I'd woken
early, and had plenty of time.
And the weather was good.
There were no pavements, sorry sidewalks.
A police car drew up and asked me what I was doing.
So walking is considered "unusual", at least by the police.
BugBear

I was outside of Laguardia airport (NYC) and ended up at the wrong
hotel for a meeting. The right hotel was across the "street" but
since there were a number of Jersey barriers between me and the other
hotel, I ended up getting a cab for a ride that was effectively just
crossing the street. But it ended up being about a 5 mile ride. So
there you go.

[bluezfolk]

Post by ComandanteBanana
It looks like a stupid question. But we already know how many
hamburgers we gulp down every year and how many hours we spend
watching the Idiot’s Box.
Then the issue of what people ride bikes where starts to make sense.
Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they afraid of the
road or what?
Of course, everybody rides on the sidewalk where I live. And yet these
things must be done according to scientific methods and sample
populations. If the samples are taken where the poor live, no doubt
the sidewalk wins. But if you go to the green areas and gated
communities, people enjoy bike paths and then the picture is reversed,
like black and white.
So while all the data is collected and everything, what’s your best
gut feeling? ;)
BIKE FOR PEACE
htttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

In my area there are no sidewalks so more folks ride in the street.
As for commuting, my location is not bike commute friendly, I'd like
to ride to work but getting past the highway interchange is a bit
scary.

Eric

[Jens Müller]

Post by bluezfolk
As for commuting, my location is not bike commute friendly, I'd like
to ride to work but getting past the highway interchange is a bit
scary.

What exactly is so scary there? Do you have to change lanes into
fast-moving traffic? What speed is driven there?

[Marz]

Post by Jens Müller

As for commuting, my location is not bike commute friendly,  I'd like
to ride to work but getting past the highway interchange is a bit
scary.

What exactly is so scary there? Do you have to change lanes into
fast-moving traffic? What speed is driven there?

Having moved from home (I still think of Cornwall as home) to the US 6
years ago I'm not sure what puts off folks from riding here.
1, The roads in general are wider than the UK.
2, Speed limits are lower and folks seen to abide by them (cops with
real and radar guns will do that)
3, Bikes are a lot cheaper.
4, There is no helmet law here in Texas ( for bicycles or
motorcycles)
5, You can ride on the road or on the pavement (oops sidewalk)
6, Drivers are terrified of being sued into bankruptcy and will
usually pass by at least 4ft.

Negative points may be.
1, 8 out of 10 cars are pickups or SUVs and they don't just nudge you
they 'splat' you.
2, Kids can drive at 15.
3, Folks carry guns and so you don't want to go mouthing off to the
driver who just cut you up.
4, Some neighbourhoods ban cyclists from the road (even though it's
technical against federal law to do so)
5, Oh and if people started cycling more in Houston, they may loose
their position as one of the fattest cities in the US. :)

While I do ride a lot, I don't commute because we don't have showers
at work and it's 95f outside in the sun!!!!!!

Laters,

Marz

[Jens Müller]

Post by Marz
3, Bikes are a lot cheaper.

Does that include _good_ bikes? Are there even _good_ bikes for sales?

Post by Marz
4, There is no helmet law here in Texas ( for bicycles or
motorcycles)
5, You can ride on the road or on the pavement (oops sidewalk)

The sidewalk is not part of the road?

Post by Marz
6, Drivers are terrified of being sued into bankruptcy and will
usually pass by at least 4ft.

Downside: _if_ an accident happens, they don't have sufficent 3rd party
insurance, but this can be compensated by having a good insurance yourself.

Post by Marz
Negative points may be.
1, 8 out of 10 cars are pickups or SUVs and they don't just nudge you
they 'splat' you.
2, Kids can drive at 15.
3, Folks carry guns and so you don't want to go mouthing off to the
driver who just cut you up.

Yeah, but a car itself is a dangerous weapon on its own.

Post by Marz
4, Some neighbourhoods ban cyclists from the road (even though it's
technical against federal law to do so)

Who does that? City councils?

I really like the German § 45 (9) StVO - traffic restrictions are only
allowed due to compelling reasons, and of course you can go to
administrative court ...

Post by Marz
5, Oh and if people started cycling more in Houston, they may loose
their position as one of the fattest cities in the US. :)
While I do ride a lot, I don't commute because we don't have showers
at work and it's 95f outside in the sun!!!!!!

Well, _slow_ cycling might cause less sweating than other kinds of
getting from A to B.

[Marz]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Marz
3, Bikes are a lot cheaper.

Does that include _good_ bikes? Are there even _good_ bikes for sales?

Oh yes, ALL bikes seem to be cheaper. For a while is seemed that for a
£1000 bike in the UK you'd be paying $1000 in the US, then the dollar
went pear shaped.

For example here's a full Ti frame with Dura Ace for probably less
than the groupset costs in the UK http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_teamti_09.htm

(I have no idea whether these bikes are any _good_)

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Marz
4, There is no helmet law here in Texas ( for bicycles or
motorcycles)
5, You can ride on the road or on the pavement (oops sidewalk)

The sidewalk is not part of the road?

True, but is is a viable option for riding as opposed to illegal in
the UK.

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Marz
6, Drivers are terrified of being sued into bankruptcy and will
usually pass by at least 4ft.

Downside: _if_ an accident happens, they don't have sufficent 3rd party
insurance, but this can be compensated by having a good insurance yourself.

Here in Texas, once your insurance runs out (all car insurance is very
limited), your home and personal wealth can be targeted to pay a
claim. And if there's any medical bills to cover it can get very
expensive very quickly. For example, 4 hours in ER for my daughter
produced a bill of $3500.

Also, I don't think 3rd party insurance exists for cyclists. Only some
coverage under Home Owners or Car insurance. (I''m still googling
this)

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Marz
Negative points may be.
1, 8 out of 10 cars are pickups or SUVs and they don't just nudge you
they 'splat' you.
2, Kids can drive at 15.
3, Folks carry guns and so you don't want to go mouthing off to the
driver who just cut you up.

Yeah, but a car itself is a dangerous weapon on its own.

Very true, and hence why I'm weary of young drivers in massive SUVs.

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Marz
4, Some neighbourhoods ban cyclists from the road (even though it's
technical against federal law to do so)

Who does that? City councils?

Local councils. There's a section of road I ride along, about six
miles, with two sections of about a mile where cycling is prohibited
on the street (they want you on the 3ft wide sidewalk). I usually
ignore the signs, but I have been stopped once by the police for doing
so. No ticket and just a warning.

Post by Jens Müller
I really like the German § 45 (9) StVO - traffic restrictions are only
allowed due to compelling reasons, and of course you can go to
administrative court ...

Post by Marz
5, Oh and if people started cycling more in Houston, they may loose
their position as one of the fattest cities in the US. :)
While I do ride a lot, I don't commute because we don't have showers
at work and it's 95f outside in the sun!!!!!!

Well, _slow_ cycling might cause less sweating than other kinds of
getting from A to B.

I wish, it's also +90% humidity and I find just standing outside in my
garden I'm loosing about a pint an hour. It's not pretty. If you stand
in a sauna do you sweat? Well that's Houston from May to October.

[Jens Müller]

Post by Marz

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Marz
6, Drivers are terrified of being sued into bankruptcy and will
usually pass by at least 4ft.

Downside: _if_ an accident happens, they don't have sufficent 3rd party
insurance, but this can be compensated by having a good insurance yourself.

Here in Texas, once your insurance runs out (all car insurance is very
limited), your home and personal wealth can be targeted to pay a
claim. And if there's any medical bills to cover it can get very
expensive very quickly. For example, 4 hours in ER for my daughter
produced a bill of $3500.
Also, I don't think 3rd party insurance exists for cyclists. Only some
coverage under Home Owners or Car insurance. (I''m still googling
this)

I meant the 3rd party insurance of the car driver, and by "a good
insurance yourself" I meant health insurance etc.

[Jeremy Parker]

">> Also, I don't think 3rd party insurance exists for cyclists. Only
some

Post by Marz
coverage under Home Owners or Car insurance. (I''m still googling
this)

It exists here in Britain. I have it three times over. Bikes are so
unlikely to cause damage to third parties that the premiums are
extremely low, low enough for a number of bike organizations to offer
the insurance free as a membership benefit.

I get my insurance through the CTC (Cyclists Touring Club), Audax UK,
and the London Cycling Campaign

Jeremy Parker

[ZBicyclist]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Marz
3, Bikes are a lot cheaper.

Does that include _good_ bikes? Are there even _good_ bikes for sales?

Post by Marz
4, There is no helmet law here in Texas ( for bicycles or
motorcycles)
5, You can ride on the road or on the pavement (oops sidewalk)

The sidewalk is not part of the road?

No. A "sidewalk" is separated from the road, usually by a strip of
grass maybe 2-4 meters. In business districts, the sidewalk will be
raised above street level.

If there is a space for walking at the side of the road, at the same
level of the asphalt, this would be called a "shoulder". This might
be a paved shoulder or a gravel shoulder.

[ComandanteBanana]

Originally Posted by SSP
"Yep...just another pointless troll poll."

There are all kinds of polls out there...

Will Your Cell Phone Make You Rude?
There's no clear, consistent link between the use of communication
devices and rudeness. People who never use cell phones are less apt
than users to say they're sometimes too busy to be as polite as they'd
like; but impoliteness does not increase as frequency of cell phone
use rises.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/US/story?id=1574155

The polls I'm dying to see are:

Does riding an SUV make you stupid?
(notice SUVs and phones go hand in hand)

and

Does riding a bike make you smart?
(obviously you prove it wrong, but it'll be interesting anyway)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Riding a bike costs peanuts --which is why monkeys love biking"

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote88

[Jym Dyer]

Post by ComandanteBanana
Does riding a bike make you smart?

=x= Generally, yes, but as you've so vividly indicated,
there are exceptions.
<_Jym_>

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by Jens Müller
The sidewalk is not part of the road?

No. A "sidewalk" is separated from the road, usually by a strip of
grass maybe 2-4 meters.  In business districts, the sidewalk will be
raised above street level.
If there is a space for walking at the side of the road, at the same
level of the asphalt, this would be called a "shoulder".  This might
be a paved shoulder or a gravel shoulder.

I think we should back to the horse... No pollution, plenty of
fertilizer and can handle the lack of sidewalks.

Ah, and no more paved parking lots in America.

[ComandanteBanana]

Post by _
As cycling is healthier by a factor of about 5 than life itself, based on
the risk of death per unit time, which it can be assumed tracks the risk of
getting "HURT AND LOSE ALL THEY'VE GOT" reasonably well, anyone who stays
away from cycling for that reason has no more congitive capacity than
TollJ.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

See? If she had been a couch potato this wouldn't have happened to
her...

"SANTA BARBARA, Calif. - Barbara Warren, one of the world's elite
endurance athletes in her age group and one-half of a well-known pair
of triathlete twins, has died after breaking her neck in a bike crash
at the Santa Barbara Triathlon. She was 65."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080829/...us/obit_warren

She probably would have died of something else --or not.

It boils down to what's more fun, the soap operas or cycling?

[KingOfTheApes]

Originally Posted by SSP
"Then why don't you STFU and go hang out on CouchPotatoForums.net?"


Couch potatos may be happy the way they are. But the ones that are
raging are the ones that want to ride bikes and yet they can't.

I think couch potatoes should be left out of any polls and even
national elections because they elect the politicians that promise
them cheaper gas!

[Jym Dyer]

Post by ComandanteBanana
She probably would have died of something else --or not.

=x= Or not? So, if she didn't bike, she'd be immortal?
<_Jym_>

[Jack May]

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by Jens Müller
The sidewalk is not part of the road?

No. A "sidewalk" is separated from the road, usually by a strip of
grass maybe 2-4 meters. In business districts, the sidewalk will be
raised above street level.
If there is a space for walking at the side of the road, at the same
level of the asphalt, this would be called a "shoulder". This might
be a paved shoulder or a gravel shoulder.

I think we should back to the horse... No pollution, plenty of
fertilizer and can handle the lack of sidewalks.

Ah, and no more paved parking lots in America.

-------
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc. In other words you have no idea of what you are talking about. All
you are saying is that you have a "technology laggard" mental problem where
you have difficulty dealing with the present and hate any planning for the
future.

You think going back to a past that you have never experienced is the
solution for everything.

Just another mentally screwed up loser.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Jack May
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc....

Wow, for that yearly cost, one could have 500+ top quality commuting
bicycles.

Horses are indeed playthings of the rich in 21st Century industrialized
nations.

[Jens Müller]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Jack May
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed,
stables, etc....

Wow, for that yearly cost, one could have 500+ top quality commuting
bicycles.

You mean 25?

Where do you get a bike for 100 USD?!

[Daniel Barlow]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Jack May
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed,
stables, etc....

Wow, for that yearly cost, one could have 500+ top quality commuting
bicycles.

You mean 25?

Unless the dollar is, like, really *really* weak, $2000/year for a
commuting cycle is an astonishingly large amount of money. I'd pay no
more than £200-300, unless I had a particularly long commute making
ride comfort a real factor, or I wanted a folder or something. No
point bying a sub 8kg carbon fibre racer if it's too fragile to take
mudguards and panniers and too much of a thief magnet to leave outside
when you get to work.

Mind you, even at that price it would take six years to collect 500 of
them.


-dan

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Daniel Barlow

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Jack May
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed,
stables, etc....

Wow, for that yearly cost, one could have 500+ top quality commuting
bicycles.

You mean 25?

Unless the dollar is, like, really *really* weak, $2000/year for a
commuting cycle is an astonishingly large amount of money. I'd pay no
more than £200-300, unless I had a particularly long commute making
ride comfort a real factor, or I wanted a folder or something. No
point bying a sub 8kg carbon fibre racer if it's too fragile to take
mudguards and panniers and too much of a thief magnet to leave outside
when you get to work.
Mind you, even at that price it would take six years to collect 500 of
them.

Well, a top of the line Brompton or Bike Friday Tikit compact folder
outfitted with a dynamo hub, B&M LED headlight, racks and panniers would
less than $1800 with tax, and should last at least 5 years of
semi-abusive use, and more like 10 years of normal use, so about
$360/year in the worst reasonable case. So about 139 top of the line
folders for the cost on one (1) horse.

Something like this Biria [1] would be about $1200 with the same dynamo
hub and B&M light upgrade, and should easily last two decades. That
would be 833 Biria bikes for the cost of one (1) horse.

[1] <http://www.biria.com/bicycles/tk/tk_lite_8.jsp>.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Jens Müller

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Jack May
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed,
stables, etc....

Wow, for that yearly cost, one could have 500+ top quality commuting
bicycles.

You mean 25?
Where do you get a bike for 100 USD?!

I hope a bike lasts a lot longer than one (1) year!

Even a steel frame ridden in the rust belt should last more than a
decade, and a non-stupid light frame that is properly designed should
have a fatigue life of several hundred thousand kilometers (assuming it
is not bashed).

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by Jens Müller
The sidewalk is not part of the road?

No. A "sidewalk" is separated from the road, usually by a strip of
grass maybe 2-4 meters. In business districts, the sidewalk will be
raised above street level.
If there is a space for walking at the side of the road, at the same
level of the asphalt, this would be called a "shoulder". This might
be a paved shoulder or a gravel shoulder.

I think we should back to the horse... No pollution, plenty of
fertilizer and can handle the lack of sidewalks.
Ah, and no more paved parking lots in America.
-------
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc.  In other words you have no idea of what you are talking about.  All
you are saying is that you have a "technology laggard" mental problem where
you have difficulty dealing with the present and hate any planning for the
future.
You think going back to a past that you have never experienced is the
solution for everything.
Just another mentally screwed up loser.

Then why the police use them? Do they have money to burn?

I always thought the bike cops are a better idea.

[RicodJour]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by Jens Müller
The sidewalk is not part of the road?

No. A "sidewalk" is separated from the road, usually by a strip of
grass maybe 2-4 meters. In business districts, the sidewalk will be
raised above street level.
If there is a space for walking at the side of the road, at the same
level of the asphalt, this would be called a "shoulder". This might
be a paved shoulder or a gravel shoulder.

I think we should back to the horse... No pollution, plenty of
fertilizer and can handle the lack of sidewalks.
Ah, and no more paved parking lots in America.
-------
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc.  In other words you have no idea of what you are talking about.

People that have no idea what they are talking about shouldn't tell
other people that they don't know what they're talking about. You're
off by about 500% in your overestimation of the average costs of
average horse ownership.
http://www.petplace.com/horses/what-it-costs-to-own-a-horse/page1.aspx

The general rule of thumb is that a car = a horse. If you're a
Hyundai type of person, then you will probably get a Hyundai type of
horse and pay Hyundai types of costs in upkeep. If you're a Ferrari
type of person...

R

[Tom Sherman]

Post by RicodJour

Post by ComandanteBanana
...
-------
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc. In other words you have no idea of what you are talking about.

People that have no idea what they are talking about shouldn't tell
other people that they don't know what they're talking about. You're
off by about 500% in your overestimation of the average costs of
average horse ownership.
http://www.petplace.com/horses/what-it-costs-to-own-a-horse/page1.aspx
The general rule of thumb is that a car = a horse. If you're a
Hyundai type of person, then you will probably get a Hyundai type of
horse and pay Hyundai types of costs in upkeep. If you're a Ferrari
type of person...

butbutbut, the car is NOT edible!!!

[RicodJour]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by RicodJour

Post by ComandanteBanana
...
-------
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc.  In other words you have no idea of what you are talking about.

People that have no idea what they are talking about shouldn't tell
other people that they don't know what they're talking about.  You're
off by about 500% in your overestimation of the average costs of
average horse ownership.
http://www.petplace.com/horses/what-it-costs-to-own-a-horse/page1.aspx
The general rule of thumb is that a car = a horse.  If you're a
Hyundai type of person, then you will probably get a Hyundai type of
horse and pay Hyundai types of costs in upkeep.  If you're a Ferrari
type of person...

butbutbut, the car is NOT edible!!!

Are you referring to its taste or your digestion? ;)

Ever try recycling a horse? I left one out at the curb and the guys
refused to pick it up - it sat out there for weeks.

R

[Tom Sherman]

Post by RicodJour

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by RicodJour

Post by ComandanteBanana
...
-------
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc. In other words you have no idea of what you are talking about.

People that have no idea what they are talking about shouldn't tell
other people that they don't know what they're talking about. You're
off by about 500% in your overestimation of the average costs of
average horse ownership.
http://www.petplace.com/horses/what-it-costs-to-own-a-horse/page1.aspx
The general rule of thumb is that a car = a horse. If you're a
Hyundai type of person, then you will probably get a Hyundai type of
horse and pay Hyundai types of costs in upkeep. If you're a Ferrari
type of person...

butbutbut, the car is NOT edible!!!

Are you referring to its taste or your digestion? ;)
Ever try recycling a horse? I left one out at the curb and the guys
refused to pick it up - it sat out there for weeks.

See <http://oldweb.nationalby-products.com/?page=deadstock>. Mmmm, dog
food. ;)

[Tom Sherman]

Post by RicodJour
...
People that have no idea what they are talking about shouldn't tell
other people that they don't know what they're talking about. You're
off by about 500% in your overestimation of the average costs of
average horse ownership.
http://www.petplace.com/horses/what-it-costs-to-own-a-horse/page1.aspx
...

So that web page says $11K/year to keep Mr. Ed around.

That $11/K year could provide for well over 100 high quality commuting
bicycles, accessories, cycling clothing, etc.

[John Kane]

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by Jens Müller
The sidewalk is not part of the road?

No. A "sidewalk" is separated from the road, usually by a strip of
grass maybe 2-4 meters. In business districts, the sidewalk will be
raised above street level.
If there is a space for walking at the side of the road, at the same
level of the asphalt, this would be called a "shoulder". This might
be a paved shoulder or a gravel shoulder.

I think we should back to the horse... No pollution, plenty of
fertilizer and can handle the lack of sidewalks.
Ah, and no more paved parking lots in America.
-------
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc.  

And don't forget you have to get rid of all the horse manure, urine
and soiled bedding. NO polution?

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

[Tom Sherman]

Post by John Kane

Post by ComandanteBanana

Post by ZBicyclist

Post by Jens Müller
The sidewalk is not part of the road?

No. A "sidewalk" is separated from the road, usually by a strip of
grass maybe 2-4 meters. In business districts, the sidewalk will be
raised above street level.
If there is a space for walking at the side of the road, at the same
level of the asphalt, this would be called a "shoulder". This might
be a paved shoulder or a gravel shoulder.

I think we should back to the horse... No pollution, plenty of
fertilizer and can handle the lack of sidewalks.
Ah, and no more paved parking lots in America.
-------
It cost about $50K per year to own a horse for vet bills, feed, stables,
etc.

And don't forget you have to get rid of all the horse manure, urine
and soiled bedding. NO polution?

Compost.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Marz
....
5, Oh and if people started cycling more in Houston, they may loose
their position as one of the fattest cities in the US. :)
While I do ride a lot, I don't commute because we don't have showers
at work and it's 95f outside in the sun!!!!!!

Is not Houston the place where you put dry clothes out on the
clothesline on a sunny day and take them down wet due to the humidity?

[Marz]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Marz
....
5, Oh and if people started cycling more in Houston, they may loose
their position as one of the fattest cities in the US. :)
While I do ride a lot, I don't commute because we don't have showers
at work and it's 95f outside in the sun!!!!!!

Is not Houston the place where you put dry clothes out on the
clothesline on a sunny day and take them down wet due to the humidity?

That's the place. Sweating is pretty pointless here as it doesn't
evaporate and you don't cool. I've actually found that tight fitting
cycling gear that wicks moisture away better than loose clothing
that's supposed to allow a breeze through.

[bluezfolk]

Post by Jens Müller

As for commuting, my location is not bike commute friendly,  I'd like
to ride to work but getting past the highway interchange is a bit
scary.

What exactly is so scary there? Do you have to change lanes into
fast-moving traffic? What speed is driven there?

The scary part is passing thru an underpass which has both the on-ramp
and off-ramp in a space of about 200 feet, and no shoulders on either
side of the road. Traffic on the on ramp is entering at about 50-55
mph and the off ramp traffic is merging into the same lane and slowing
to about 30-35.

[_]

Post by ComandanteBanana
It looks like a stupid question. But we already know how many
hamburgers we gulp down every year and how many hours we spend
watching the Idiot’s Box.
Then the issue of what people ride bikes where starts to make sense.
Why do 99% of Americans do NOT commute by bike? Are they afraid of the
road or what?

Possibly - due to (or as an alternative explanation for "or what") the
prevalence of laws requiring the wearing of Magic Foam Hats.