bikes are too fast for sidewalks, and too slow for traffic lanes

[KingOfTheApes]

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
"I don't usually ride on the sidewalk because I like to ride faster
than 5mph. End of story."

This kid has a concern for pedestrians...

"If you're over 13 years old it is illegal to ride a bike on the
sidewalk, plus cyclists are being curtious to walkers and joggers but
most importantly road bikes are simply too fast for the sidewalk, a
crack or uneven section could be devastating. You just have to have
some patience and learn to pass with out nearly killing everyone."

But the fact of the matter is that bikes are too fast for sidewalks,
and too slow for the traffic lanes. In other words, THERE'S NO PLACE
FOR BIKES (unless you are going super slow or super fast).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Riding a bike costs peanuts --which is why monkeys love biking"

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote88

[Brian Huntley]

Post by KingOfTheApes
But the fact of the matter is that bikes are too fast for sidewalks,
and too slow for the traffic lanes. In other words, THERE'S NO PLACE
FOR BIKES (unless you are going super slow or super fast).

No, you might as well say there's no place for private cars in town.
Bikes don't seem to have problems passing, only cars do.

[KingOfTheApes]

Let's see what happened in the jungle today... :(

Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
Wednesday, July 16, 2008
FoxNews

A cancer survivor bicycling to work for the first time to save on gas
was shot and killed, according to Toledo police.

Police Capt. Ray Carroll said 46-year-old David Babcock was seen on a
street having a heated argument with another man before he was shot
around 5:30 a.m. Tuesday.

"(There were) two people arguing, yelling at each other, then the gun
shots went off," said Carroll. "We were given just a vague description
(of the suspect)."

Babcock was pronounced dead at an area hospital.

The coroner said Babcock took a bullet to the face that caused massive
bleeding and hampered his breathing.

Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the
mostly residential neighborhood.

The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX
Toledo.

No arrests have been made. Authorities don't know the motive for the
shooting.

Babcock survived surgery to remove a brain tumor 13 years ago. His
fiancée, Rene Long, said he had put lights on his bike and wore a
reflective vest so he would be safe on his inaugural, 8-mile ride to
his job at Fresh Products Inc., a maker of air fresheners.

"I was so proud of him. He couldn't wait to ride it to work. That was
his first day of riding it to work," Long said.

***

Are we drawing any lessons from this? I'd draw this lesson, IF YOU
DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE OF BUDDHA AND THE GUN OF JOHN WAYNE, STAY
HOME. I've got neither.

These are points to bear in mind...

Too many guns out there.

Too much road rage.

Too little respect for cyclists.

Too many reckless drivers.

Too many indifferent policemen, authorities, etc.

[JNugent]

Post by KingOfTheApes
Let's see what happened in the jungle today... :(
Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
Wednesday, July 16, 2008
FoxNews
A cancer survivor bicycling to work for the first time to save on gas
was shot and killed, according to Toledo police.
Police Capt. Ray Carroll said 46-year-old David Babcock was seen on a
street having a heated argument with another man before he was shot
around 5:30 a.m. Tuesday.
"(There were) two people arguing, yelling at each other, then the gun
shots went off," said Carroll. "We were given just a vague description
(of the suspect)."
Babcock was pronounced dead at an area hospital.
The coroner said Babcock took a bullet to the face that caused massive
bleeding and hampered his breathing.

"Hampered his breathing"?

To say the least, clearly.

Post by KingOfTheApes
Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the
mostly residential neighborhood.

"Run down the street"...

Not, you motice: "drove away down the street" (see below).

Post by KingOfTheApes
The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX
Toledo.
No arrests have been made. Authorities don't know the motive for the
shooting.
Babcock survived surgery to remove a brain tumor 13 years ago. His
fiancée, Rene Long, said he had put lights on his bike and wore a
reflective vest so he would be safe on his inaugural, 8-mile ride to
his job at Fresh Products Inc., a maker of air fresheners.
"I was so proud of him. He couldn't wait to ride it to work. That was
his first day of riding it to work," Long said.
Are we drawing any lessons from this? I'd draw this lesson, IF YOU
DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE OF BUDDHA AND THE GUN OF JOHN WAYNE, STAY
HOME. I've got neither.
These are points to bear in mind...
Too many guns out there.

That's there. Not here (though there may well be too many here as well).

Post by KingOfTheApes
Too much road rage.
Too little respect for cyclists.
Too many reckless drivers.
Too many indifferent policemen, authorities, etc.

There might be (in both countries), but there's nowt above to lead you
to that view - you'd have to arrive at it independently of the report of
the instant case.

Was there any evidence at all that the incident had anything to do with
bikes, road rage, cars or indifferent policemen? How do we know that the
assailant wasn't just, for instance, a cuckolded husband?

[Tim McNamara]

Post by JNugent

Post by KingOfTheApes
Let's see what happened in the jungle today... :(
Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work Wednesday,
July 16, 2008 FoxNews
A cancer survivor bicycling to work for the first time to save on
gas was shot and killed, according to Toledo police. Police Capt.
Ray Carroll said 46-year-old David Babcock was seen on a street
having a heated argument with another man before he was shot around
5:30 a.m. Tuesday. "(There were) two people arguing, yelling at
each other, then the gun shots went off," said Carroll. "We were
given just a vague description (of the suspect)." Babcock was
pronounced dead at an area hospital. The coroner said Babcock took
a bullet to the face that caused massive bleeding and hampered his
breathing.

"Hampered his breathing"?
To say the least, clearly.

Post by KingOfTheApes
Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the
mostly residential neighborhood.

"Run down the street"...
Not, you motice: "drove away down the street" (see below).

Post by KingOfTheApes
The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX
Toledo. No arrests have been made. Authorities don't know the
motive for the shooting. Babcock survived surgery to remove a brain
tumor 13 years ago. His fiancée, Rene Long, said he had put lights
on his bike and wore a reflective vest so he would be safe on his
inaugural, 8-mile ride to his job at Fresh Products Inc., a maker
of air fresheners. "I was so proud of him. He couldn't wait to ride
it to work. That was his first day of riding it to work," Long
said.
Are we drawing any lessons from this? I'd draw this lesson, IF YOU
DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE OF BUDDHA AND THE GUN OF JOHN WAYNE, STAY
HOME. I've got neither.
These are points to bear in mind... Too many guns out there.

That's there. Not here (though there may well be too many here as well).

Post by KingOfTheApes
Too much road rage. Too little respect for cyclists. Too many
reckless drivers. Too many indifferent policemen, authorities, etc.

There might be (in both countries), but there's nowt above to lead
you to that view - you'd have to arrive at it independently of the
report of the instant case.

Indeed. We all read these things through the filters of our assumptions
and prejudices. One could as easily come to alternate conclusions if
starting from a different world view. A local conceal-and-carry
advocate would probably say that if everybody carried guns, everyone
would be more considerate and polite to each other and there'd be fewer
such incidents.

It's part of what's called self-serving bias and it's part of human
nature. We interpret events to favor our preexisting beliefs.

Post by JNugent
Was there any evidence at all that the incident had anything to do
with bikes, road rage, cars or indifferent policemen? How do we know
that the assailant wasn't just, for instance, a cuckolded husband?

Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim
well or at least have some personal connection. Truly random murders
are fairly rare.

[D***@gmail.com]

Post by Tim McNamara

Post by JNugent

Post by KingOfTheApes
Let's see what happened in the jungle today... :(
Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work Wednesday,
July 16, 2008 FoxNews
A cancer survivor bicycling to work for the first time to save on
gas was shot and killed, according to Toledo police. Police Capt.
Ray Carroll said 46-year-old David Babcock was seen on a street
having a heated argument with another man before he was shot around
5:30 a.m. Tuesday. "(There were) two people arguing, yelling at
each other, then the gun shots went off," said Carroll. "We were
given just a vague description (of the suspect)." Babcock was
pronounced dead at an area hospital. The coroner said Babcock took
a bullet to the face that caused massive bleeding and hampered his
breathing.

"Hampered his breathing"?
To say the least, clearly.

Post by KingOfTheApes
Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the
mostly residential neighborhood.

"Run down the street"...
Not, you motice: "drove away down the street" (see below).

Post by KingOfTheApes
The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX
Toledo. No arrests have been made. Authorities don't know the
motive for the shooting. Babcock survived surgery to remove a brain
tumor 13 years ago. His fiancée, Rene Long, said he had put lights
on his bike and wore a reflective vest so he would be safe on his
inaugural, 8-mile ride to his job at Fresh Products Inc., a maker
of air fresheners. "I was so proud of him. He couldn't wait to ride
it to work. That was his first day of riding it to work," Long
said.
Are we drawing any lessons from this? I'd draw this lesson, IF YOU
DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE OF BUDDHA AND THE GUN OF JOHN WAYNE, STAY
HOME. I've got neither.
These are points to bear in mind... Too many guns out there.

That's there. Not here (though there may well be too many here as well).

Post by KingOfTheApes
Too much road rage. Too little respect for cyclists. Too many
reckless drivers. Too many indifferent policemen, authorities, etc.

There might be (in both countries), but there's nowt above to lead
you to that view - you'd have to arrive at it independently of the
report of the instant case.

Indeed. We all read these things through the filters of our assumptions
and prejudices. One could as easily come to alternate conclusions if
starting from a different world view. A local conceal-and-carry
advocate would probably say that if everybody carried guns, everyone
would be more considerate and polite to each other and there'd be fewer
such incidents.

Do you disagree with such a theory? I personally think Mr. Heinlein
had a fair point.

Post by Tim McNamara
It's part of what's called self-serving bias and it's part of human
nature. We interpret events to favor our preexisting beliefs.

Post by JNugent
Was there any evidence at all that the incident had anything to do
with bikes, road rage, cars or indifferent policemen? How do we know
that the assailant wasn't just, for instance, a cuckolded husband?

Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim
well or at least have some personal connection. Truly random murders
are fairly rare.

Agreed, but a big part of the non-personal attacks are muggings. I
think that "thugs" would be less likely to be pulling guns on
strangers a larger portion of the population was known to be carrying
weapons themselves.

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by Tim McNamara
Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim
well or at least have some personal connection.  Truly random murders
are fairly rare.

Agreed, but a big part of the non-personal attacks are muggings.  I
think that "thugs" would be less likely to be pulling guns on
strangers a larger portion of the population was known to be carrying
weapons themselves.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Carrying a concealed weapon is not easy to do for a cyclist, and then
drawing first would be even more difficult. Cagers already have a
weapon in their hand: their vehicle.

[D***@gmail.com]

Post by KingOfTheApes

Post by Tim McNamara
Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim
well or at least have some personal connection.  Truly random murders
are fairly rare.

Agreed, but a big part of the non-personal attacks are muggings.  I
think that "thugs" would be less likely to be pulling guns on
strangers a larger portion of the population was known to be carrying
weapons themselves.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Carrying a concealed weapon is not easy to do for a cyclist, and then
drawing first would be even more difficult. Cagers already have a
weapon in their hand: their vehicle.

1) Carrying concealed on a bicycle is easy, unless you're insistent on
skin-tight clothing. A baggy shirt and a good holster accomplishes
wonders.

2) The situation in question here involved the cyclist stopped,
arguing with a man on foot and getting shot & robbed. Not really
relative to car vs. gun combat.

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by D***@gmail.com

Post by KingOfTheApes
Carrying a concealed weapon is not easy to do for a cyclist, and then
drawing first would be even more difficult. Cagers already have a
weapon in their hand: their vehicle.

1) Carrying concealed on a bicycle is easy, unless you're insistent on
skin-tight clothing.  A baggy shirt and a good holster accomplishes
wonders.
2) The situation in question here involved the cyclist stopped,
arguing with a man on foot and getting shot & robbed.  Not really
relative to car vs. gun combat.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I've thought we didn't know that. Anyway *I* had an incident that
would have called for a gun if I had one, or for law and order on our
roads...

I was riding causeway "X" with my girlfriend, taking the lane, two
lanes in each direction, nearly no traffic, signs say bikes must be
walked along bridges' sidewalks, 3 bridges ranging from 200 to 900
feet... First incident: Policeman waves me off the road
(indifference)... Second incident, down the road, no bridge: Guy in
SUV blasts the horn (road rage), I have second thoughts about taking
the lane... Third incident, riding against the curb, back on the
bridge: Yet another guy in SUV insistently blows the horn (without me
knowing what it means), I give him the finger, and he stops (road rage
escalation). He threatens to get off the car (he's much stronger than
me, plus he's in a 3 ton vehicle), and I try to get out of the
situation. He says he was trying to help me (he's playing vigilante)
by having me safely walk the bike on the sidewalk. We argue, he spits
at my face and takes off. Luckily no guns on either side. I don't
react to get his license plate, and wouldn't have made a difference
anyway. I never go for the puppet, but for the puppeteer...

Now suppose I had a gun: What should I have done? Isn't it better that
they built more bike facilities, and taught drivers to respect
cyclists? There was a policeman with the speed gun nearby (collection
time). I bet if they sent undercover policemen on bikes, the way
policewomen do hookers, none of that would have happened, or at least
it would be a step in the right direction, right? But they argue
there's no funds for that...

I went back to this bridge a few days ago and the sidewalk is so
narrow that is completely unrideable, and perhaps even unwalkable with
a bike. One step wrong and you fall into traffic. The police set up
these signs for no good reason, and any vigilante out there can feel
the need to fill the void. Never again back on that causeway which is
one major way to get to stores as well as parks with my bike. Now I
just drive or avoid the area altogether. And other major roads are
closed for me as well due to heavy (and chaotic) traffic.

Only law out there is the Law of the Jungle. Take meditation or take a
gun. Or go on the Internet and make a lot of noise about it. That's
the best weapon the monkey's got --besides the banana. ;)

WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

[KingOfTheApes]

This is an exception, but I have generally decided not to reply to this
guy's threads. What possible good could come from cross posting to
rec.bicycles.misc, alt.planning.urban, rec.bicycles.soc,
rec.bicycles.rides, uk.rec.cycling? If you find a pile of cow manure by
the side of the road and stir it up, you still just have a stirred up
pile of cow manure.

Monkeys throw shit when they get mad, that's why we have to consider
cows quite civilized.

Good thing the Internet allows for civilized conflict resolution. ;)

[KingOfTheApes]

"Don't tease the monkey" T-shirt...

http://www.zazzle.com/don_t_tease_the_monkey_shirt-235055204051654433

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by KingOfTheApes
"Don't tease the monkey" T-shirt...
http://www.zazzle.com/don_t_tease_the_monkey_shirt-235055204051654433

"A civilized society cannot let the law of the jungle rule its roads;
if we want to ensure fairness, government must act to protect the
weak."

And why should we protect the monkey, not the lion? Because then the
lion will eat the monkey, stupid. And that keeps the other monkeys
terrorized, which is not what we want. We want them to come out,
right?

Here's a smart comment on the subject...

"The purpose of the police power is to protect public health, safety,
and welfare. When it comes down to cars vs. bicycles, the latter need
greater protection than the former -- after all, cars kill more
Americans than guns do, whereas beds kill more Americans than bikes
do.

That's why places which truly embrace bicycling as a valid (and safe)
mode of transportation have laws that aren't fair: bicycles get more
rights than cars. In many northern European countries, the driver is
always at fault in a bicycle-car crash. Some municipalities even
completely exempt bicycles from many road regulations (like one-way
traffic flow) -- since such regulations are often intended to regulate
cars (in the one-way example, that street might be too narrow for two
cars to pass but plenty wide for two bikes to pass).

A civilized society cannot let the law of the jungle rule its roads;
if we want to ensure fairness, government must act to protect the
weak.

The #1 reason that people cite for not bicycling more often is that
they feel that biking is unsafe. It isn't, really -- in fact, not
bicycling degrades your life expectancy more than bicycling -- but it
can be made much safer through good policies, enforced fairly."

Posted by PCC | June 25, 2008 8:30 PM

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/traffic_hierarchy.php

[KingOfTheApes]

...

Post by KingOfTheApes
But the fact of the matter is that bikes are too fast for sidewalks,
and too slow for the traffic lanes. In other words, THERE'S NO PLACE
FOR BIKES (unless you are going super slow or super fast).

...
Not certain I'd agree. I am NOT the fastest cyclist, by any stretch of
the imagination, particularly when commuting as I don't want to sweat.
Nonetheless, as I commute to work, I frequently fall in behind the bus I
would take were I to take the bus. I am always within a few
car-lengths, either side, when it arrives at the stop at which I would
exit the bus were I to take the bus. In short, I cycle as fast as the
bus travels (granted, the bus has to stop to meet the needs of other
commuters). Since I don't hear anyone suggesting that the buses are too
slow for the road, I must not be too slow for the road and, by
extension, all the cyclists who pass me (who are legion) must not be too
slow for the road. So it is not fair to say that cyclists are too slow
for the road.

The bus is also massive enough to crush the largest luxury SUV.

It may a reason powerful enough in a place where MIGHT IS RIGHT.

Interesting there's a book by that name, that's still censored after a
century, and yet very much practiced everywhere, including in our
roads...

"One would think that in our liberal, enlightened times a book dating
from the Victorian Age would be viewed as a quaint curiosity. Not so
Dr. Ragnar Redbeard's notorious Might Is Right or the Survivial of the
Fittest. It is hated and denounced as much today as when it first made
the rounds of the Victorian Age's elite and influential, which
explains why the book is often featured on banned-book lists."

http://www.dilpicklepress.com/

[GeneralissimoApeshit]

Post by KingOfTheApes
"Don't tease the monkey" T-shirt...
http://www.zazzle.com/don_t_tease_the_monkey_shirt-SPAM

Spammer.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by GeneralissimoApeshit

Post by KingOfTheApes
"Don't tease the monkey" T-shirt...
http://www.zazzle.com/don_t_[spank]_the_monkey_shirt-SPAM

Spammer.

I fixed the URL.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Jul 23, 12:41 am, GeneralissimoApeshit

I've found that the more you crosspost it, the more the shit gets
stirred. But no bull shit, please. ;)

Most people avoid piles of shit.

Is that why people avoid *you*? Or is it because you are an ape?

I'm one myself and I'm proud of it.

We are waiting for the Planet of the Apes, right?

"the apes, who can talk, are in control and are divided into a strict
class system: the gorillas as police, military, and hunters; the
orangutans as administrators, politicians and lawyers; and the
chimpanzees as intellectuals and scientists. Humans, who cannot talk,
are considered feral vermin and are hunted and used for scientific
experimentation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Apes_(1968_film)

I'd like to experiment with those humans who drive SUVs to see what's
in their head...

[KingOfTheApes]

I've found that the more you crosspost it, the more the shit gets
stirred. But no bull shit, please. ;)

Most people avoid piles of shit.

Dung beetles think it is like going to a fancy restaurant.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder" or so the saying goes among
the winos, those who always ride a rusted bike.

Many people think shit of the cyclists (perhaps associating us with
the winos), but we know is good.

[Tom Sherman]

Post by Tim McNamara
...
Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim
well or at least have some personal connection. Truly random murders
are fairly rare.

No, random murders are by far the most common. However, the murderers
prefer the term "collateral damage" to murder.

[KingOfTheApes]

This is an exception, but I have generally decided not to reply to this
guy's threads. What possible good could come from cross posting to
rec.bicycles.misc, alt.planning.urban, rec.bicycles.soc,
rec.bicycles.rides, uk.rec.cycling?

CROSS-POSTED FLAME WAR!!!

If you find a pile of cow manure by
the side of the road and stir it up, you still just have a stirred up
pile of cow manure.

But the smell will be greater if the crust of the cow "pie" is broken to
reveal the soft, steaming interior. ;)

Cow shit is better than bull shit.

(I'm working on a quotation book)

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by Tim McNamara
...
Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim
well or at least have some personal connection.  Truly random murders
are fairly rare.

No, random murders are by far the most common. However, the murderers
prefer the term "collateral damage" to murder.

They also prefer the term "liberation" instead of "invasion"...

Orwell called it "newspeak," right?

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by JNugent

Post by KingOfTheApes
Let's see what happened in the jungle today... :(
Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
Wednesday, July 16, 2008
FoxNews
A cancer survivor bicycling to work for the first time to save on gas
was shot and killed, according to Toledo police.
Police Capt. Ray Carroll said 46-year-old David Babcock was seen on a
street having a heated argument with another man before he was shot
around 5:30 a.m. Tuesday.
"(There were) two people arguing, yelling at each other, then the gun
shots went off," said Carroll. "We were given just a vague description
(of the suspect)."
Babcock was pronounced dead at an area hospital.
The coroner said Babcock took a bullet to the face that caused massive
bleeding and hampered his breathing.

"Hampered his breathing"?
To say the least, clearly.

Post by KingOfTheApes
Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the
mostly residential neighborhood.

"Run down the street"...
Not, you motice: "drove away down the street" (see below).

Post by KingOfTheApes
The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX
Toledo.
No arrests have been made. Authorities don't know the motive for the
shooting.
Babcock survived surgery to remove a brain tumor 13 years ago. His
fiancée, Rene Long, said he had put lights on his bike and wore a
reflective vest so he would be safe on his inaugural, 8-mile ride to
his job at Fresh Products Inc., a maker of air fresheners.
"I was so proud of him. He couldn't wait to ride it to work. That was
his first day of riding it to work," Long said.
Are we drawing any lessons from this? I'd draw this lesson, IF YOU
DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE OF BUDDHA AND THE GUN OF JOHN WAYNE, STAY
HOME. I've got neither.
These are points to bear in mind...
Too many guns out there.

That's there. Not here (though there may well be too many here as well).

Post by KingOfTheApes
Too much road rage.
Too little respect for cyclists.
Too many reckless drivers.
Too many indifferent policemen, authorities, etc.

There might be (in both countries), but there's nowt above to lead you
to that view - you'd have to arrive at it independently of the report of
the instant case.
Was there any evidence at all that the incident had anything to do with
bikes, road rage, cars or indifferent policemen? How do we know that the
assailant wasn't just, for instance, a cuckolded husband?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I'm just using case "X" to prove that it's a jungle out there, but I
could use the Google News search and find many more.

But it's not what happens to you (it almost happened to me recently
with a "vigilante" blowing the horn to let me know to walk the bike on
the sidewalk of a bridge), it's that people live in FEAR of taking a
chance on a bike when they can do it in a cage. This accounts for the
ridiculous low % of people (.4%) who dare to commute by bike.

What I propose is that we fight this form of discrimination in an
ORGANIZED WAY. Otherwise we will keep being food for the sharks.

The organization is done around WEARABLE BANNERS, aka T-Shirts.

http://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by Dave Larrington

Post by Tom Sherman
[rec.bicycle.rides snipped]

Post by KingOfTheApes
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
"I don't usually ride on the sidewalk because I like to ride faster
than 5mph. End of story."
This kid has a concern for pedestrians...
"If you're over 13 years old it is illegal to ride a bike on the
sidewalk, plus cyclists are being curtious to walkers and joggers but
most importantly road bikes are simply too fast for the sidewalk, a
crack or uneven section could be devastating. You just have to have
some patience and learn to pass with out nearly killing everyone."
But the fact of the matter is that bikes are too fast for sidewalks,
and too slow for the traffic lanes. In other words, THERE'S NO PLACE
FOR BIKES (unless you are going super slow or super fast).

Is this guy truly (and unreasonably) terrified of vehicles, or just an
anti-cycling troll?

He's an arsehole. Ignore him and perhaps he'll go away.

I'll stop posting here when I don't see the need to fight bike
discrimination. Luckily for those who prefer to ignore the issues, I
have many issues to talk about, other areas where we too are the
bottom of the food chain.

COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

For example, I propose a "Dutch Package," where issues normal to the
Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana-- are
discussed in less open societies.

'U.S. leads world in substance abuse, WHO finds'

"Countries with looser drug laws have lower rates of abuse"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080701/hl_nm/drugs_who_dc

One more proposal: The $15 billion the US wastes on the "war on
drugs," could be smartly used to build BIKE FACILITIES.

[Doug Smith W9WI]

Post by KingOfTheApes
Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the
mostly residential neighborhood.
The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX
Toledo.

Judging from these two lines, this looks a LOT more like robbery than road
rage.

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by Doug Smith W9WI

Post by KingOfTheApes
Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the
mostly residential neighborhood.
The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX
Toledo.

Judging from these two lines, this looks a LOT more like robbery than road
rage.  

The dangers on the road come in many ways. Anyone can get behind the
wheel and get away with light sentences when they kill innocents. But
if these predators were riding bikes instead of cars, they wouldn't be
as dangerous.

Once again, my intention is NOT to keep cyclists from the roads, but
to change the laws --or lack of laws-- that make cycling unnecessarily
dangerous. In the UK at least you've got better traffic laws if not
better bike facilities.

Woman pleads guilty after killing cyclist with her car

UTICA, N.Y. (AP) - A 23-year-old Utica woman pleaded guilty to
striking and killing a bicyclist with her car in September.

Jodi Marris pleaded guilty yesterday to second-degree vehicular
manslaughter and driving under the influence of drugs in the death of
48-year-old Peter Zacek Junior. She admitted she'd mixed prescription
medication and marijuana before the crash.

Marris says she was returning from visiting her boyfriend in the Lewis
County Jail when she noticed her driving beginning to swerve. She
continued to drive until she struck Zacek as he rode his bike along
the highway. She says she never saw him until after she hit him.

She faces no more than two to six years in prison when she's sentenced
in September.

http://www.fox44.net/Global/story.asp?S=8689042&nav=menu660_1

[Tom Sherman]

[rec.bicycle.rides snipped]

Post by KingOfTheApes
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
"I don't usually ride on the sidewalk because I like to ride faster
than 5mph. End of story."
This kid has a concern for pedestrians...
"If you're over 13 years old it is illegal to ride a bike on the
sidewalk, plus cyclists are being curtious to walkers and joggers but
most importantly road bikes are simply too fast for the sidewalk, a
crack or uneven section could be devastating. You just have to have
some patience and learn to pass with out nearly killing everyone."
But the fact of the matter is that bikes are too fast for sidewalks,
and too slow for the traffic lanes. In other words, THERE'S NO PLACE
FOR BIKES (unless you are going super slow or super fast).

Is this guy truly (and unreasonably) terrified of vehicles, or just an
anti-cycling troll?

[Dave Larrington]

Post by Tom Sherman
[rec.bicycle.rides snipped]

Post by KingOfTheApes
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
"I don't usually ride on the sidewalk because I like to ride faster
than 5mph. End of story."
This kid has a concern for pedestrians...
"If you're over 13 years old it is illegal to ride a bike on the
sidewalk, plus cyclists are being curtious to walkers and joggers but
most importantly road bikes are simply too fast for the sidewalk, a
crack or uneven section could be devastating. You just have to have
some patience and learn to pass with out nearly killing everyone."
But the fact of the matter is that bikes are too fast for sidewalks,
and too slow for the traffic lanes. In other words, THERE'S NO PLACE
FOR BIKES (unless you are going super slow or super fast).

Is this guy truly (and unreasonably) terrified of vehicles, or just an
anti-cycling troll?

He's an arsehole. Ignore him and perhaps he'll go away.

[KingOfTheApes]

Post by Tom Sherman

Post by KingOfTheApes
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
"I don't usually ride on the sidewalk because I like to ride faster
than 5mph. End of story."
This kid has a concern for pedestrians...
"If you're over 13 years old it is illegal to ride a bike on the
sidewalk, plus cyclists are being curtious to walkers and joggers but
most importantly road bikes are simply too fast for the sidewalk, a
crack or uneven section could be devastating. You just have to have
some patience and learn to pass with out nearly killing everyone."
But the fact of the matter is that bikes are too fast for sidewalks,
and too slow for the traffic lanes. In other words, THERE'S NO PLACE
FOR BIKES (unless you are going super slow or super fast).

Is this guy truly (and unreasonably) terrified of vehicles, or just an
anti-cycling troll?

Pity, the majority of American who do NOT ride bikes to work (96.6% of
them) agree with me. So does this parent...

14. I noticed in the discussion of bike lanes noone mentioned Santa
Monica. I bike my children to school and then bike to work (2 miles).
If it weren't for the bike lanes, I wouldn't do it. I don't like
riding in traffic. It's very dangerous.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?q...57AArONFj&cp=2

Tell me, how many parents already let their kids go out and enjoy a
bike ride on our wild roads? C'mon, and please don't count those
within the "gated communities." The rich live in their own safe world,
you know.